Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job • Hacker News Board

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#461

Post by 1270018080 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:05 PM UTC

bobkazamakis wrote: post #397

dadoge wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok looked the guy up: https://www.stevenbuccini.com/about/ - Studied at Berkeley - worked at Apple and Uber And I’m supposed to feel bad for you not wanting to spend a few weeks grinding at leetcode? This reeks of someone who is very well off, and not an “Everyman” engineer.

I actually agree with the parent here; grinding leetcode is some dumbshit waste of time that I'm not going to bother with -- I've got code to put in production and this simply is never a good use of my time. When you have an obnoxious hiring process that will take multiple hours for your special company, why would I even waste my time? I can click a few more buttons and have offers elsewhere anyways...

> dumbshit waste of time that I'm not going to bother with

You're leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table. The hours/money ratio of studying leetcode is pretty good.

> for your special company

At least 1 round of leetcode questions is a requirement for every company I have interviewed with.

> I can click a few more buttons and have offers elsewhere anyways...

If that's actually true, then nevermind.

I hate leetcode too, but I think it's unwise to not conform.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#462

Post by yongjik » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:10 PM UTC

chrisbaker98 wrote: post #457

some_furry wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ruling by a court isn't the same thing as federal law. There is no federal law establishing my rights, so if a company tries to ask about my personal life (wife, kids, etc.) I politely decline to answer, or I answer vague enough that doesn't give them any useful information.

How often does that happen though? I'm straight and I don't recall ever being asked about my family or love life in a job interview. Not that I'd keep it secret if asked, but why the hell would they be asking?

Yeah I'm also curious. When I was at Google there were a list of things you were never supposed to ask a candidate because that's Super Illegal(TM) and could expose the company to lawsuits. That included sexual orientation and marriage status. That was more than ten years ago, I'd expect most IT companies would do the same by now, at least in the US.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#463

Post by nicoburns » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:13 PM UTC

didibus wrote: post #342

nicoburns wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said I would be a little suspicious as a mid/senior-level developer if I got hired at a place that didn't ask me to do any coding for them at all beforehand. I'd be suspicious if they didn't ask me to do any coding, but I'd be just as suspicious if the coding they asked me to do was leetcode.

Why are you opposed to leetcode? While it annoys me as well to have to brush up a little, someone who has both the discipline to review their fundamentals, and that can demonstrate they have the smarts to be good at it, that's a great sign of being a good candidate. It serves as a great arbiter, if two people seem to have the same experience, how do you pick between the two? And when hiring a junior, out of school, t…

> Why are you opposed to leetcode? > It serves as a great arbiter

I'm opposed because I don't think it serves as a great arbiter. At best, it selects for logical/academic ability, whereas IMO the most important skill as engineer is pragmatic decision making and building an appropriate solution. In practice it just selects for people who have studied leetcode (and to a lesser extent, those who have a CS degree)

> if two people seem to have the same experience, how do you pick between the two? > And when hiring a junior, out of school, there will be no experience to go by, so what else would you assess on?

You use a technical challenge that resembles the work that the person would need to fulfil in the job. Perhaps creating a single view of a website/app for a frontend role. Or creating a few API endpoints for a backend role. Or whiteboarding through a technical architecture (with plenty of opportunity to ask clarifying questions).

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#464

Post by anon50118810 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

raydev wrote: post #448

anon50118810 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's a good trade-off to interview constantly even when you have a job just to remove a bit of the learning curve if you lose your job unexpectedly.

I recommend it. For me, unused skills will become inaccessible relatively quickly, and interviews require a specific set that aren't used at all in any of my jobs over the years. Once, I did heavy interview prep because I was bored with my job at the time, I got good at it, and landed another better job. A year later my company deleted entire orgs of people, and I quickly realized that I was in bad shape when my thir…

It's a good idea to practice if you're trying to get up the nerve to make the jump to a better job. But during a job search, you'll either get so many rejections that you'll get back up to speed quickly enough without needing to also obsess about it while you're employed, or you're hireable enough that you didn't need to worry about it either way.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#465

Post by MRtecno98 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:24 PM UTC

SCUSKU wrote: post #454

kelnos wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I propose to have 2 profiles, [...] the second for your private views Or just don't post about your views on anything (controversial or otherwise) on social media. Just opt out. There's no inherent reason why you need to post about anything on social media. If you must, perhaps because you use it to keep in touch with family and friends, just post about things that are going on in your life. There's no reason you n…

The issue I take with this is that employment becomes a form of restriction of free speech. Unfortunately, the reality is most of us can't afford to truly speak our minds because we need a job to put food on the table and a roof over our heads. Still, even with that in mind, I think the best compromise is to provide strong support of your opinions and not just shout whatever political slogan happens to be in vogue.

Honestly if you're going to(hypothetically) rant over the economic system from an extremist viewpoint(like many people on the internet do) i won't be surprised nor blame the employer for not giving you a job in that exact economy you just spent 2k words ranting about; and you shouldn't neither, if you have any integrity that is. Free speech doesn't mean denying any responsibility over what you say, so if an employer refuses to give you the job over some rational reason regarding what you wrote(e.g. hypocrisy in the example before) i really don't think there is anything wrong with it.

Obviously i'm not saying there are no employers discriminating candidates for a political view which may have nothing to do with the job itself, or that they aren't a problem, but i don't think the number of employers that are actually problematic are enough to say that they restrict your freedom of speech. Just find another, and if you can't, well then it's probably on you more so than the employer.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#466

Post by mixmastamyk » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:26 PM UTC

anon50118810 wrote: post #218

FpUser wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"so if you've been looking for X months, surely there's something wrong with you - and anyway, we've already signed a contract with someone else in the 5 days since we last spoke." I think letting them know you are currently unemployed is a mistake. Frankly your current state of affairs is not their business. You can always tell them that you are ok but looking for a better job. Very simple and understandable. Yes i…

There's really no way to hide you're currently unemployed, or at least not employed in the tech field, unless you make up an entire fantasy world. Not only will you have to put the lie into your resume, and maybe provide fake references, but you'll also get tons of interview questions about skills and projects and challenges from your current job.

Freelancing since 2020, most often working on foo bar baz…

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#467

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

xboxnolifes wrote: post #453

jt2190 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had mentioned how frustrating it was to simply get "no" as negative hiring feedback and asked them to elaborate if at all possible Don’t do this! You’re inviting feedback from someone who is basically a complete stranger, who has an undisclosed set of “standards” they’re judging you against, and who might not actually be very good at assessing talent. The odds of getting a “false signal” are high.

There's no reason to avoid information. You can still ignore it.

[deleted]

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#468

Post by subrat_rout » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

fatnoah wrote: post #352

anticristi wrote: post #336

I would love to read a European, perhaps Swedish version of this article. 12+ months of unemployment insurance is standard here. I guess it doesn't take the loneliness away, but might make unemployment less traumatic.

Looking at the internet, it looks like Sweden supports 300 days of unemployment benefits that max out at 1200 SEK/day (about $115 US). In the US, one can receive up to 210 days of unemployment with a max benefit of $145/week. So yes, there is unemployment insurance in the US, and it pays almost 30% more than in Sweden. There is a HUGE gotcha, though, and that's the cost of health insurance. Unless the former employer…

If Sweden pays $115/day then it comes about $575/week. And if US pays $145/week how it is 30% more than Sweden?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#469

Post by shrimp_emoji » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:33 PM UTC

optymizer wrote: post #302

harshalizee wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible, possibly toxic advice. Software devs are people too. They burn out, take time off to travel, reflect, take care of family, or just down on their luck being unemployed. The only advice I'd consider paramount is to take stock of themselves financially and mentally, to assure themselves that they can take on the chaos and uncertainty that follows. Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resu…

If you're not passionate about coding, that advice isn't for you. There is a class of people for whom coding is 'work', as in the actual act of coding is work and they would prefer to be doing anything else, but they have bills to pay. There is another class of developers who like to code so much, that 'work' is merely a project that they don't have directional control over, but the act of coding is a relaxing activi…

>There is another class of developers who like to code so much, that 'work' is merely a project that they don't have directional control over, but the act of coding is a relaxing activity.

I'm in the middle. Imagine you like playing football. You do it for fun. But, if you do it too much, you'll be exhausted and maybe strain a muscle or something. I code for fun, but it still wears me out; it's still a kind of "work" psychologically distinct from, and more taxing than, watching a show.

The only way I would describe it as "relaxing" is if I put little-to-no thought into it, but that's how you end up with very buggy code.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#470

Post by Fr3dd1 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 10:33 PM UTC

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #444

Fr3dd1 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underlying belief to this is, is that more hours = more results = better results. I highly doubt that this is the truth.

That's not the underlying belief in a startup. It's more like: we have not fully figured out market fit. We may need to build something very very quickly (I'm talking about hours/days, not weeks/months) and then maintain them for while. That's why I say "work smarter not harder" can fail - that only works if you make assumptions about the future, in a startup that can only take you so far.

Okay, I didnt thought about such an early state.