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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

stevenbuccini.com

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#441

Post by lll-o-lll »

gorbachev wrote: post #387

The number one thing I've learned from being laid off was never to trust your employer. Trust people, if they've shown to be trustworthy, but never, ever trust a company. A company is not family, they're not your friend, and the perceived loyalty you think you've "earned" doesn't mean a thing if layoffs are coming. Treat your employment as a business arrangement. You get a paycheck in exchange for labor. Nothing less…

Ahh yes. I think most people end up going through this bitter disillusionment at some point in their careers.

Humans are tribal by nature and companies are setup like a big tribe. We even call the guy (and it’s mostly a guy) at the top the chief! Feelings of “family” and “loyalty” are built into humans operating in tribes, and a real tribe looks out for its members.

So when the sudden wholesale internally orchestrated slaughter of a chunk of the tribe happens (metaphorically), it comes as quite a shock (the first time). Both for the people that go and the people that stay. The lesson is that a company is not a tribe.

That said, a company is also a collection of people and the relationships you develop as you work are just as meaningful as the ones you develop in other aspects of life. Loyalty to people is a perfectly good and reasonable thing.

So my take is, you should focus on fostering good relationships with your coworkers and hold loosely to the concept of the “company”. The company may screw you over, but good people will always try to do what is right.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#442

Post by scarface74 »

itake wrote: post #435
scarface74 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and No. If I worked for an outside consulting company that would be true - with the inherent risks you stated. Working at AWS in ProServe, our compensation structure is the same as SDEs - 4 year initial offer, large prorated signing bonus, 5/15/40/40 RSU vesting schedule. It’s different for sales. The bright side is that there is always work. Worse case, I can be “hired” by another internal team that needs someon…

I think you’re misrepresenting your story in your original comment. If you want to be an SDE at a Tier 1, you have to leetcode. There is no persuading the interviewer to pass you without testing your leetcode. If you are comfortable taking a non-SDE role, then there are opportunities at tech companies that don’t require programming skills or leetcode. I’m happy you have found an alternative career path, but you’re co…

There are 2.7 million developers in the US. Most don’t work at a tier 1 tech company.

My original story said nothing about where I work. I was originally referring to my process to get a software development job from 1996-2018.

But it’s not an accident I make “FAANG money” without doing “leetCode”. While I fell into a position at AWS, high level consultants make more with the same skillset than your typical BigTech SDE once they build a base. It’s higher risk and more hustle though.

I only brought up where I work now when someone brought up the r/cscareerquestions type reply of “TC”.

I am very sincere about my lack of desire to ever be a software engineer for a large company. I would give up my current compensation and jump back over to the enterprise dev/architect side of compensation before I ever did that.

Again, I already had the big house in the burbs, retirement savings, etc before AWS ever reached out to me.

If I leave my current job at the time of my choosing, it will probably be a compensation cut and probably for some unknown company.

I know for a fact that I could call up a few former managers who now work at different companies and they would give me a job faster than I could say “I am looking for…”

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#443

Post by mixmastamyk »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #386
sbuccini wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connotations I had in mind (although I obviously cannot be sure what the recruiter thought): - what mgkimsal said - "This employee is applying to really big companies. I'm not sure they know what they are really looking for. This is a mission-driven company, and we want people who want to be here" - "This person has applied to 30+ places and hasn't landed a job yet? Must not be that great after all" - "Someone wh…

I'd also add: - "Oh someone here is treating our company as if it was a commodity. I don't like them." - "This person is trying to game interviewing, probably best to steer clear."

How could interviewing be anything but a game? I understand some wouldn't want it spoken of however.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#444

Post by sweezyjeezy »

Fr3dd1 wrote: post #434
sweezyjeezy wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some IC roles do fit more younger candidates than older. E.g. in a startup - often better they not have outside commitments like a family, or need for a healthy work-life balance. Sometimes "work smarter not harder" falls apart and they need to work like a maniac. On balance I've found older colleagues less willing to do that. That isn't meant as a criticism, just an observation about role-fit, those people usually d…

The underlying belief to this is, is that more hours = more results = better results. I highly doubt that this is the truth.

That's not the underlying belief in a startup. It's more like: we have not fully figured out market fit. We may need to build something very very quickly (I'm talking about hours/days, not weeks/months) and then maintain them for while.

That's why I say "work smarter not harder" can fail - that only works if you make assumptions about the future, in a startup that can only take you so far.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#445

Post by ferrumfist »

mtc010170 wrote: post #439
w10-1 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We brought along the people we thought were the best, who we got along with, who would get the job done" I really appreciate the sentiment. In my experience such networks have been self-serving and mostly exclusionary, rewarding loyalty more than competence. "You need to make some changes" is not particularly helpful when you're outside the fold. What's typically unstated is something about loyalty, esp. not disclos…

> 2. Never give anyone a reason to dislike you I'm someone who tends to get along and work well with others. That part definitely has its advantages for employability (and life in general), and is recommended. However, taking it to this extreme is just dangerous advice. Constantly being a people pleaser can carry enormous risks, especially (but not limited to) to yourself. It's important to learn to be ok with people…

People pleasers can cause people to dislike them in a workplace, ironically. Being a people pleaser in software dev very often means you will over-burden yourself because you'd rather say "yes, I can do that for you" than "no, I don't have the bandwidth for that".

I'd rather a teammate who is honest about their current limitations than someone who tells me what I want to hear. If someone admits they are stretched thin, it's now an "us versus the problem" to find why you are so overtasked. If someone consistently takes on too much (because they can't say no) and causes the team to miss deadlines, it's now an "us versus you" problem.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#446

Post by scatters »

criddell wrote: post #203
anon50118810 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In very large part what your interviews look like depends heavily on when and where you're searching, what type of job you want and what your background is. It's hard to overstate this. 2018 might as well be an entirely different universe. That said I would be a little suspicious as a mid/senior-level developer if I got hired at a place that didn't ask me to do any coding for them at all beforehand.

I'm sometimes involved in the interviewing process for my employer and we don't do any kind of coding tests. We do ask for them to submit a sample of their work and use it in the interview. I ask questions about the problem and about how they solved it. The code itself isn't usually that interesting, but the tangents we wander down usually are. If the person can't communicate well about a technical topic that they es…

Submit a sample of their work? What employer lets their ex employees do that?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#447

Post by oldstrangers »

bilvar wrote: post #403
oldstrangers wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty hilarious that you've managed to mention Marx multiple times and throw in an "extreme left-wing echo chamber" unprovoked. Turn off the Fox News buddy, take a deep breath. The woke cancel culture isn't out to get you and the government isn't trying to implant chips in your arm.

Commenter: Spouts Marxist drivel Reply: Points out that the Marxist drivel is drivel Commenter: Suprised Pikachu face “You must be watching too much Fox News to be bringing up Marx !11!!1” (No matter I don’t even have Fox News in my country, being from ex-Soviet block, but that’s Americans for you). And what’s wokeness and government wanting to implant chips have to do with Marxism? You seem a bit confused. Anyway, v…

My buddy, you're literally writing in memes... You need to get a hold of yourself.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#448

Post by raydev »

anon50118810 wrote: post #324
rr808 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a big lesson I learned. I worked at a job for 8 years without looking elsewhere and when I got laid off I was really stuck because the market and interviewing circuit had completely changed.

I'm not sure it's a good trade-off to interview constantly even when you have a job just to remove a bit of the learning curve if you lose your job unexpectedly.

I recommend it. For me, unused skills will become inaccessible relatively quickly, and interviews require a specific set that aren't used at all in any of my jobs over the years.

Once, I did heavy interview prep because I was bored with my job at the time, I got good at it, and landed another better job.

A year later my company deleted entire orgs of people, and I quickly realized that I was in bad shape when my third rejection rolled in.

Interviews are high pressure situations. Better to be used to the flow, coding, and conversation style (again, think "sales") than to be caught off guard, worrying about whether you've solved a Leetcode question fast enough to satisfy another human with their own grading quirks.

Oh, and that person is standing between you and a steady paycheck. That's the part I have to practice anyway, solving stupid university final problems when my livelihood is on the line.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#449

Post by mixmastamyk »

jonathankoren wrote: post #333
ericmcer wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is a good writer and clearly a thoughtful individual, which further reinforces truth #6 (honesty can hurt you). I subconsciously approached the article with a bit of negative bias around the fact he had been laid off. His writing has more clarity than many successful CEOs though so who knows.

> I subconsciously approached the article with a bit of negative bias around the fact he had been laid off. His writing has more clarity than many successful CEOs though so who knows. That’s because most people get laid off because of no fault of their own. There’s a false idea that people that are laid off are low performers, but the truth of the matter is that more often than not it, it’s entire teams.

Yes, and if you're in the game thru a few downturns, you will be laid off during them a few times in an otherwise successful career. Severance package FTW.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#450

Post by TeMPOraL »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #443
TeMPOraL wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also add: - "Oh someone here is treating our company as if it was a commodity. I don't like them." - "This person is trying to game interviewing, probably best to steer clear."

How could interviewing be anything but a game? I understand some wouldn't want it spoken of however.

Part of it is, indeed, talking about unspoken rules. But part of it is that the hiring managers and CEOs are humans like everyone else - some may have ego issues, or buy a little too much into their company's branding.
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