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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#401

Post by turdprincess »

kelnos wrote: post #378
JackFr wrote: post #251

I was laid off in April 2020 as well, and while some of my experience matches the author's some of it was very different. Being laid off was not a relief -- it was terrifying. All indications were that a severe recession was coming. Frankly, it was quite surprising to me that companies were hiring at all given the uncertainty. It was not obvious at the time that broad sectors of the economy could seamlessly move to 1…

> I had no stigma whatsoever attached to the fact that I had been laid off. This point in the article was weird to me, that you should creatively avoid saying that you were laid off. Sure, some layoffs are just an excuse to get rid of people who the company believe are low performers, so if you were laid off from a prominent company where recruiters know why the layoff happened, this could be a problem for you when l…

It is none's business about why you left (or are leaving) your previous job, unless perhaps it is due to some legal issue that would show up on a (criminal) background check. Interviewing for a new job is all about the future, and it's totally up to you to reveal only the facts about your past that paint you in a favorable light.

Whether or not saying you got laid off would hurt your chances is a separate question. My guess is most of the time it wont. But as a flip, would saying you got laid off improve your chances of getting the job? If the answer is no, then its not worth saying - focus instead on the things that for sure portray you positively.

The same goes for jobs with short tenures - if you stayed at some place for a few months and left just leave it off your resume. It doesn't do anything to sell you, so why waste time on it?

Just remember, an interview is a short period of time to sell the best parts of yourself that are most applicable to the job. It is not a 100% confession of all the good and bad things that happened to you.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#402

Post by kelnos »

sangnoir wrote: post #281
harshalizee wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible, possibly toxic advice. Software devs are people too. They burn out, take time off to travel, reflect, take care of family, or just down on their luck being unemployed. The only advice I'd consider paramount is to take stock of themselves financially and mentally, to assure themselves that they can take on the chaos and uncertainty that follows. Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resu…

> Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resume and claimed that they were doing start-up, open source, etc. for an interview, I'd dig deep into that hard Hah, and you called gp's advice toxic! Taking stock if your financial well-being after being laid off is too late. I fear your advice (take time off) may be toxic - depending on circumstances. My advice is this: as a general rule, avoid interviewing whi…

I think we're abusing the word "toxic" here. Sure, for someone who hasn't planned out their finances and built a cushion, advising them to take some time off would be... well, bad advice. But "toxic"? That's a bit hyperbolic.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#403

Post by bilvar »

oldstrangers wrote: post #338
bilvar wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic Marxist response when it's demonstrated that their logic produces 1+1=3. Talk about alternative realities :)

It's pretty hilarious that you've managed to mention Marx multiple times and throw in an "extreme left-wing echo chamber" unprovoked. Turn off the Fox News buddy, take a deep breath. The woke cancel culture isn't out to get you and the government isn't trying to implant chips in your arm.

Commenter: Spouts Marxist drivel

Reply: Points out that the Marxist drivel is drivel

Commenter: Suprised Pikachu face “You must be watching too much Fox News to be bringing up Marx !11!!1” (No matter I don’t even have Fox News in my country, being from ex-Soviet block, but that’s Americans for you). And what’s wokeness and government wanting to implant chips have to do with Marxism? You seem a bit confused.

Anyway, very banal reaction, mostly inducing a yawn.

But no worries, keep the meltdown you’re having for everyone to see.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#404

Post by ketzo »

kelnos wrote: post #378
JackFr wrote: post #251

I was laid off in April 2020 as well, and while some of my experience matches the author's some of it was very different. Being laid off was not a relief -- it was terrifying. All indications were that a severe recession was coming. Frankly, it was quite surprising to me that companies were hiring at all given the uncertainty. It was not obvious at the time that broad sectors of the economy could seamlessly move to 1…

> I had no stigma whatsoever attached to the fact that I had been laid off. This point in the article was weird to me, that you should creatively avoid saying that you were laid off. Sure, some layoffs are just an excuse to get rid of people who the company believe are low performers, so if you were laid off from a prominent company where recruiters know why the layoff happened, this could be a problem for you when l…

Yes, when lots of companies are cutting back to their most essential employees, it helps provide a little cover.

But, y'know, regardless of the environment, what does it say about your abilities that your employer didn't consider you essential?

This is a very pessimistic way to view things that I don't fully believe, and of course any reasonable person knows that being part of a layoff is very rarely just the employee's fault. But to perhaps state the obvious, being laid off is never gonna look good, or even neutral. There will always be stigma.

Being able to reframe your layoff in as positive of a light as you can is important.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#405

Post by warkdarrior »

w10-1 wrote: post #325
zer00eyz wrote: post #315

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old). I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers. If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking". I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of…

"We brought along the people we thought were the best, who we got along with, who would get the job done" I really appreciate the sentiment. In my experience such networks have been self-serving and mostly exclusionary, rewarding loyalty more than competence. "You need to make some changes" is not particularly helpful when you're outside the fold. What's typically unstated is something about loyalty, esp. not disclos…

I think you are discounting the social aspect of the advice. Most people do great things, but very few can stand out only on the strength of their work. So for the vast majority doing good work has to be coupled with having a network that knows about one's work.

And frankly looking for a job is probably one of the most self-serving efforts in one's life, by definition. That is a good thing.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#406

Post by kelnos »

Ialdaboth wrote: post #275
harshalizee wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is terrible, possibly toxic advice. Software devs are people too. They burn out, take time off to travel, reflect, take care of family, or just down on their luck being unemployed. The only advice I'd consider paramount is to take stock of themselves financially and mentally, to assure themselves that they can take on the chaos and uncertainty that follows. Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resu…

Terrible advice. One year of lazing around and playing videogames is a good way to lose any self-discipline you would been building up to this point. There is nothing toxic in working to improve yourself and/or building projects you are passionate about - quite the contrary. The feeling of accomplishment can do wonders to one's mental health.

Speaking of toxicity, this idea that the primary means of valuing ourselves and being "healthy" should be through our job or independent job-related work... ugh, super toxic.

I don't think the grandparent was suggesting they literally sit around for a year and do nothing buy play video games. But, hell, taking time off between jobs is a great idea, and if video games are your thing, spending a chunk of that time off playing sounds like it could be great for your mental health. But, just like anything else, moderation!

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#407

Post by doix »

anon50118810 wrote: post #384
doix wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are the jobs you're talking about often gated behind these applications? Most likely, you'll start to recognize the different software companies use to track job applications. My only experience was helping someone out when they got laid off. They had a mortgage to pay, a new born and a wife that quit her job to look after the new born. Being picky about job application software wasn't a the top of our list. I thin…

You can judge for yourself whether I'm serious or desperate or not. If your standard is 500 applications within a few days, then no. I can't even comprehend that. Are we talking like 10-15 applications per hour? I don't care about the software as such, but so far I'm not desperate enough to provide detailed information about every job I've had since I was a teenager, every reference up front, agree to legal statement…

> Are we talking like 10-15 applications per hour?

Pretty much, around 5 minutes per application.

>provide detailed information about every job I've had since I was a teenager, every reference up front, agree to legal statements, or whatever else they might insist on, knowing I could be fired later on if I get any of it wrong

Either you're completely overthinking it and you can just omit a bunch of stuff, or you're applying to some job that requires security clearance and they use those questions to prescreen. I remember the application for some defense contractor was too painful and we gave up.

But if it's some standard jobvite or whatever form, just fill it in. Only include relevant tech jobs and your university education (if you have a degree) and move on.

If it's really that big a deal for you, shortlist 50 jobs from those job search sites. Then go to /r/slavelabour and pay someone $15 bucks to apply for you (given your CV and email).

> That said I'm willing to have my mind changed on this. Maybe all of these jobs are actually super eager to hire despite being so hostile to applicants.

It's more likely that at some point that bought a license for the applicant tracking software and they'll use it forever. They probably have it on some default settings so it's not the best for tech jobs. That doesn't mean they aren't serious about hiring.

But those job aggregator sites are a bit shit, they'll have listings for jobs that are already filled or no longer available.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#408

Post by 908B64B197 »

w10-1 wrote: post #325
zer00eyz wrote: post #315

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old). I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers. If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking". I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of…

"We brought along the people we thought were the best, who we got along with, who would get the job done" I really appreciate the sentiment. In my experience such networks have been self-serving and mostly exclusionary, rewarding loyalty more than competence. "You need to make some changes" is not particularly helpful when you're outside the fold. What's typically unstated is something about loyalty, esp. not disclos…

Something I noticed in tech is that loyalty is generally a consequence of competence.

If competent people are valued, recognized and promoted that leads to more interesting projects and compensation. That's how you build loyalty.

We all know software shops that are always whining about the "tech talent shortage" and whose technical employees don't stay more than two years. And we know why nobody is loyal to those!

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#409

Post by adamzerner »

zer00eyz wrote: post #315

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old). I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers. If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking". I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of…

This advice boils down to "be the best of the best" because you'd only go out of your way for someone if they're that good.

I don't think people who haven't reached that bar are necessarily doing something "wrong". It takes hard work to reach it and some people prioritize other things in life over hustling. Others simply don't have the talent to reach it.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#410

Post by itake »

ketzo wrote: post #404
kelnos wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had no stigma whatsoever attached to the fact that I had been laid off. This point in the article was weird to me, that you should creatively avoid saying that you were laid off. Sure, some layoffs are just an excuse to get rid of people who the company believe are low performers, so if you were laid off from a prominent company where recruiters know why the layoff happened, this could be a problem for you when l…

Yes, when lots of companies are cutting back to their most essential employees, it helps provide a little cover. But, y'know, regardless of the environment, what does it say about your abilities that your employer didn't consider you essential? This is a very pessimistic way to view things that I don't fully believe, and of course any reasonable person knows that being part of a layoff is very rarely just the employe…

To add, usually companies layoff low performers first.

At my previous job, the company laid off 1000 people, but only 3% of engineering…

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