Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job • Hacker News Board

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#311

Post by anon7725 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #236

iLoveOncall wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a long story to hide the fact that by refusing to do LeetCode interviews you were not offered a software engineering position. You most likely are an SA, which is a position open even to business degree holders and is barely technical, no wonder you didn't have to LeetCode.

You mean not being “offered” a position I didn’t want? I have never had any desire to be a software developer at a large company. I like being able to: - be on pre-sales calls with customers - writing the proposals/statements of work - deal with the decision makers from the customers side - architect the entire solution from the development side and the infrastructure/“dev ops side” - do the actual work - lead the us…

Just for context, people in scarface’s type of role can “out-TC” many platform/product engineers of the equivalent level, depending on how rewards are structured.

The downside that I’ve noticed is that field roles tend to be cut first in response to market weather/customer focus. But a skilled engineer doing field work is a valued commodity in general.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#312

Post by ChuckMcM » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

sbuccini wrote: post #4

Hey everyone, author here. Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I decided to spend Christmas break in CDMX[0] by myself in order to reflect not only on the past year, but just how far I've come since I got laid off. This is the result. Thanks for making all those hours at the café (instead of at a museum or bar or whatever) worthwhile. [0] I'll be here for a few more days if you'd like to meet up!

Great article, I really enjoyed it.

Given that you now know what it will be like if you get laid off again, have you changed anything about how you approach your non-work life? Things like non-work friends you hang out with, non-work activities that you do for fun, Etc. Sort of "if I'm laid off again, then I'll fill my days with interviewing and ..."

Glad you're back up and running and have processed the layoff!

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#313

Post by Siddarth1977 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #211

jimmaswell wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a live-to-work attitude. Have some other hobbies and goals, and a year of unemployment will be neither lonely nor depressing. Personally I've gone farther in the work-to-live direction, with an easygoing, "boring" (still fulfilling enough to see some javascript doodad come to life, but not world changing) WFH job I perform well in that supports my homesteading and other hobbies.

Or its "if you enjoy what you do you will never work" attidude I have met soo many sysadmins and devs that absolutely hate computers, hate programming, hate everything about IT. They were in some career fair at some point in high school and simply picked that because it had high pay with out the 6 or 8 years being a Doctor or lawyer took, and it seemed easier than Electrical Engineering or something. Me, I have alway…

Two other factors to consider: 1) people grow and change and 2) working a job is very different than doing "the same" activity as a hobby.

I enjoy gardening and cooking as hobbies, but I don't want to work a job as a landscaper or line chef. After 20+ years of coding, I absolutely hate it despite having started out loving it, but I recognize that my cushy job is less hours for more pay than I could get doing anything else.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#314

Post by bilvar » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

oldstrangers wrote: post #304

bilvar wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most capitalists are not billionaires or even millionaires, the divide you are creating is outdated and frankly asinine.

Reading your other comments, you've aggressively decided to dismiss the historical definition of the capitalist class because it doesn't suit your worldview. In that case there's essentially no conversation to be had because you're already operating from an alternative reality.

Why do you think that Marx's definition of capitalist is the 'historical definition'? The term predates Marx.

Moreover, words progressively change definitions depending on cultural and intellectual trends.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#315

Post by zer00eyz » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old).

I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers.

If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking".

I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of my way to get them a job. That means make a spot for them on my team. Or I will reach into the non overlapping parts of our networks to see if someone is hiring.

Im going to do this because they are good, because they don't suck, because they will get the job done. They will make me look good as the person who brought them in/onboard.

Those of us who survived the bubble did so on hard work and a network. We brought along the people we thought were the best, who we got along with, who would get the job done.

Its the new year, it is the perfect excuse to figure out who your network is, and what they can do for you. Make a list of folks you know, call them up, tell them your thinking of changing jobs. If you don't hear a lot of "send me your resume"/"is your linked/site in up to date" then you need to make some changes.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#316

Post by atomicnumber3 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:35 PM UTC

harshalizee wrote: post #171

blagie wrote: post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

This is terrible, possibly toxic advice. Software devs are people too. They burn out, take time off to travel, reflect, take care of family, or just down on their luck being unemployed. The only advice I'd consider paramount is to take stock of themselves financially and mentally, to assure themselves that they can take on the chaos and uncertainty that follows. Honestly, if someone showed up with a gap in their resu…

What if they showed up with a gap and simply said "I have plenty of money and took the time to myself, my family and my interests"?

(I've never had a resume gap but that's going to be my explanation if/when I do.)

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#317

Post by oldstrangers » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:35 PM UTC

bilvar wrote: post #314

oldstrangers wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading your other comments, you've aggressively decided to dismiss the historical definition of the capitalist class because it doesn't suit your worldview. In that case there's essentially no conversation to be had because you're already operating from an alternative reality.

Why do you think that Marx's definition of capitalist is the 'historical definition'? The term predates Marx. Moreover, words progressively change definitions depending on cultural and intellectual trends.

Because... I wrote the comment, and in the context of my comment, I am referring to the traditional idea of a "capitalist class". There's also no new revised understanding of "capitalists" that includes everyone with a small business. Even in "21st century economics", a capitalist is still traditionally considered someone who owns the means of production at the absolute top of the supply chain (the owners and controllers of capital). Your local grocery story owner is still literally buying his inventory from a supplier. You follow that supply chain long enough, there's more than likely a billionaire at the end of it. That's the actual capitalist.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#318

Post by rjh29 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:37 PM UTC

ctvo wrote: post #187

rjh29 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a decent amount of savings and a side project I want to do which could potentially earn money. Are you saying if I quit my job and do this for a year or so, it'll fill a hole in my resume and not affect future interviews?

Everytime I read these comments I feel like I work in another industry. Who cares about the gaps in your resume? Truly, have recruiters commented in anything but passing? Your interviewers? I've hired candidates with large gaps in their resume and their reasoning for the most part was I wanted time off or I went traveling or N other things that have nothing to do with work. We. Did. Not. Care. Pass the interview. Thi…

Are you working for FAANG etc? I work a mid-level IT job, there is competition. I have no evidence but it seems like candidates who are currently unemployed (especially for a long time) will end up at the bottom of the pile. That at least would make finding a new job harder.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#319

Post by geekbird » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

trashface wrote: post #270

Plan for early retirement even if you don't want it. You may want to work forever, but the jobs may not want you. Already an issue for older ICs and I expect it will just get worse.

I'm less than ten years from retirement. I still need to work for those ten years, and probably afterward. Yes, I get a lot of ageism, ableism and sexism in my job searches. I don't look my age, fortunately, but having over 20 years in my field makes people want to lowball me or hire a "cheaper" (less experience) person. It's very annoying.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#320

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 6:38 PM UTC

anon7725 wrote: post #311

scarface74 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean not being “offered” a position I didn’t want? I have never had any desire to be a software developer at a large company. I like being able to: - be on pre-sales calls with customers - writing the proposals/statements of work - deal with the decision makers from the customers side - architect the entire solution from the development side and the infrastructure/“dev ops side” - do the actual work - lead the us…

Just for context, people in scarface’s type of role can “out-TC” many platform/product engineers of the equivalent level, depending on how rewards are structured. The downside that I’ve noticed is that field roles tend to be cut first in response to market weather/customer focus. But a skilled engineer doing field work is a valued commodity in general.

Yes and No.

If I worked for an outside consulting company that would be true - with the inherent risks you stated.

Working at AWS in ProServe, our compensation structure is the same as SDEs - 4 year initial offer, large prorated signing bonus, 5/15/40/40 RSU vesting schedule. It’s different for sales.

The bright side is that there is always work. Worse case, I can be “hired” by another internal team that needs someone to implement a solution to show off a new service.