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Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

stevenbuccini.com

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Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#371
post #325

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old). I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers. If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking". I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of…

"We brought along the people we thought were the best, who we got along with, who would get the job done" I really appreciate the sentiment. In my experience such networks have been self-serving and mostly exclusionary, rewarding loyalty more than competence. "You need to make some changes" is not particularly helpful when you're outside the fold. What's typically unstated is something about loyalty, esp. not disclos…

The people whom I’d recommend are not on the basis of loyalty but rather on some dot product of competence and willingness/propensity to do hard work.

It’s true that a network referral will inherently be of someone that I worked with (or have other [rare] reason to vouch for). That’s the value of it: if you know me enough to trust my judgment, that vouch has information value for you.

I don’t see any other way it could work more effectively.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#372

Stepping back for a moment from the content, I think it is worth noting what an exceptionally well-written essay this is. Being able to write well is a super power for engineers. It is a reflection of the lucidity and clarity of one's mind, and the ability to understand the needs of the reader. Writing well is an exceptionally useful and powerful skill that can be improved with consistent practice. I would be tempted…

Verbal and math ability are highly correlated, as suggested by IQ and SAT scores. People who are good at math tend to be above average at writing too.

SAT-type verbal stuff is very different from being able to write well. It's much closer to math with a different alphabet--I've met more than one math major who did better on the verbal sections of standardized tests.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#373

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old). I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers. If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking". I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of…

[deleted]

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#374
post #325

I survived the dot com crash (yes I'm old). I have hired (interviewing team member, or hiring manager) hundreds of engineers. If you are hearing "let me know if I can help" (number 5) you might be doing something wrong. You should be hearing some version of " I will talk to my boss" or "I will call for you" or "XXX person I know is looking". I have a list of about 30 people who if they call me I'm going to go out of…

"We brought along the people we thought were the best, who we got along with, who would get the job done" I really appreciate the sentiment. In my experience such networks have been self-serving and mostly exclusionary, rewarding loyalty more than competence. "You need to make some changes" is not particularly helpful when you're outside the fold. What's typically unstated is something about loyalty, esp. not disclos…

>In my experience such networks have been self-serving and mostly exclusionary, rewarding loyalty more than competence.

The point being? That is how human social network and constructs work. The ultimate point is to help yourself and not based on some ephemeral grand concept. No matter how competent someone is why would I want to work with them if they will stab me in the back one day? Incompetent people will indirectly stab you in the back eventually so you really want an adequate level of competence and loyalty.

Dislike and loyalty are also very different things so not sure why you're equating them. There's people who do things I dislike that will support others that support them. There are people I like greatly who have a record of stabbing others in the back even if they were helped by that person. Guess which ones I'd recommend for a job?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#375

> Hard Truth #6: Honesty can only hurt you I think the author has come away with the wrong lesson here. Many engineers, particularly those that don't pay too much heed to social mores, think they have some God-given right to share details of all their private interactions publicly. Every tech test they do is pushed to GitHub with an accompanying blog post. Every interview has a transcript (somewhat one-sided) publish…

If a company asks you about stuff that isn't any of their business you have my permission (not that you need it) to lie your ass off if you think it will help you. The power asymmetry is such that unless the counterparty is extremely careful about abusing that power that you will end up being cornered and taken advantage of. If you present yourself as more desirable than you are based on your current situation and it…

Gosh, no - strongly recommending not doing this. (The lying part)

Lying is one of the worst things you can do, it usually speaks to an issue with integrity, a concern that comes before almost all of them even intelligence, education, aptitude, skills.

Learn the skill of polite deferral, of saying things without saying them, diverting or embellishing a bit - and then only if it's an issue not relevant to the job.

If someone in an interview asks you your 'political orientation' (which obviously they shouldn't do and it would raise a big red flag anyhow - but just as an example) you do not have to be candid, but don't lie. You can say "I have a variety of opinions, I try to keep an open mind" - so long as you are comfortable with it and it's true. You have not lied, but not fully answered the question because it's none of their business.

I also think the OP here has misinterpreted 'transparency and candor'.

Engineers who 'over share' are a bit annoying but then again, you don't have to read their posts - but this is not the issue.

The 'issue' here is the absolutely truthful information that is 'just too much' for an interview setting.

Everyone needs to be honest and candid but not transparent like you're talking to the IRS or your accountant.

Suppose they ask you why you might want to work at the company, and you don't really feel hugely inspired, well, instead of saying literally that, you can find at least something interesting about the situation and allude to it. There's something interesting about every situation. And of course, if it's truly a bad situation just say that politely and assume you won't be working there.

It's ok to ask 'Elephant in the Room' questions especially if they are asked politely, if they can't handle that you don't want to work there.

It's ok to be turned away for something arbitrary or mundane (or any other reason) there will be other opportunities.

Getting turned down can make you very cynical and brings out our worst, even conspiratorial tendencies so try to stay grounded and keep your head on straight, don't be sucked into the vortex of weirdness and 'ultra competitive civility' of getting job shenanigans, it's not real, it's a big of a game, recognise it a such.

Kind of like telling people to 'don't be nervous' on a date, what I'm about to write is super glib but I think it's true: stay true to your basic values and identity and I think it will be easier to be more relaxed and authentic in interviews. The 'game' will pull you towards negative behaviours I have found it's a lot easier not to do them if you literally just decide that you are not going to do so for reasons of morality or values or whatever.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a colleague who almost feels like he's actively trying to make me hate him by throwing completely unrelated to work off-hand remarks in the most basic thing I do, like telling people that I'm gonna take a lunch break or just opening up a terminal prompt while we pair program. I know it's off-topic but It's hard for me to try to be likeable with people who are actively trying stuff like that, and I don't know w…

I think I don’t fully understand the opening up a terminal prompt part of that comment.

Not the one or replying to, but I’ve encountered this too. Some pair programming takes the form of two people operating one computer. When I’ve done this style and I’m driving, certain people wouldn’t let me finish my thought on what I’m doing. They’ll grab their keyboard or mouse and change programs, or just start typing in stuff while I’m typing too.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#377

Would anyone here find it useful if I offered to teach algorithms and data structures, specifically catered towards leetcode kind of problems. The approach would be (writing it from memory, will revise it if there is any feedback): First master the basic data structures and be able to manipulate them rather quickly. We will write many small programs to ensure that a one can perform most of the common operations on a…

I've got a couple hundred LC's under my belt but I would still definitely appreciate something like this. Do you have a discord in mind or something else? Currently gainfully employed still, not sure if being laid off is a requirement but I'd like to keep my skills sharp just in case.

Discord would be great. The parent comment was -1'ed perhaps because it came across as selling. Was trying to help folks here as I have recently gone through the ordeal of getting into a FAANG company.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#378
post #251

I was laid off in April 2020 as well, and while some of my experience matches the author's some of it was very different. Being laid off was not a relief -- it was terrifying. All indications were that a severe recession was coming. Frankly, it was quite surprising to me that companies were hiring at all given the uncertainty. It was not obvious at the time that broad sectors of the economy could seamlessly move to 1…

> I had no stigma whatsoever attached to the fact that I had been laid off.

This point in the article was weird to me, that you should creatively avoid saying that you were laid off. Sure, some layoffs are just an excuse to get rid of people who the company believe are low performers, so if you were laid off from a prominent company where recruiters know why the layoff happened, this could be a problem for you when looking for a new job.

But if you were caught in the string of layoffs happening this year (or at the beginning of the pandemic), I can't see how there'd be stigma attached to that. And I'd worry that being evasive about why you're no longer at your previous company could be a red flag to recruiters; just doesn't seem worth it.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#379
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always lie (through omission) in job interviews, because there's no federal protection against discrimination on basis of sexual orientation.

Has Bostock been overturned? https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/protections-against-emplo...

A ruling by a court isn't the same thing as federal law.

There is no federal law establishing my rights, so if a company tries to ask about my personal life (wife, kids, etc.) I politely decline to answer, or I answer vague enough that doesn't give them any useful information.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always lie (through omission) in job interviews, because there's no federal protection against discrimination on basis of sexual orientation.

Even when applying to companies that are LGBTQ friendly? I sometimes self identify on applications if the company has a good reputation with that kind of thing because I’d expect It would give me some diversity points. But maybe that’s not the best idea.

I do not trust "LGBTQ friendly" companies, unless their board of directors is predominantly LGBTQ.

Once bitten, twice shy.

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