Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job • Hacker News Board

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#131

Post by petesergeant » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

sbuccini wrote: post #24

pronlover723 wrote: post #11

#1 it's lonely? April 2020, 1 month into the pandemic. I found the pandemic lonely. I saw less than 1 person a month for the first 14 months of the pandemic. And i find WFH incredibly lonely. I haven't recovered. I'm utterly alone most weeks. I see no one. Even if I go to work, no one is there. I moved cities a year ago and have only 1 friend and 2 acquaintances in the new city. 2 of those 3 are married and I see the…

Hey, author here. I get it, trust me. This post meant to encapsulate my feelings during the one year I spent unemployed. During that entire time, I was alone. I had a falling out with my parents. I moved to a foreign country where I knew no one in order to stretch my savings. I totally get it. If you need to chat with someone, I'm happy to lend an ear. Contact info is in my profile.

> I moved to a foreign country where I knew no one in order to stretch my savings

I have found NomadList (nomadlist.com) and NomadSphere (nomadsphere.io) invaluable for meeting up with people when abroad, although usually people who are there to work remotely.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#132

Post by anon50118810 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

weakfortress wrote: post #91

tester756 wrote: post #23

>You’re going to have to grind Leetcode. Yes, even the dynamic programming problems. Why there isn't this much problem with having to learn yet another JS framework, get familiarity with database of the month, learn some tool like docker/k8s/ansible/vagrant/blabla or yet another proprietary toolchain like AWS/Azure/GCP but foundational cs/programming knowledge is top hated thing, that people even call it "discriminat…

Because after a successful, productive, 5-10 years at a company you tend to forget the algorithms you don't use. I can remember enough about the knapsack problem to talk intelligently about it. I can't remember how to do the dynamic programming. In 90% of cases given infinite time I can eventually arrive at the solution to most med-hard questions. However, you don't have infinite time. I find problems like optimizing…

In my experience you're overstating the need to be able to instantly brain dump complex algorithms, except maybe at the FAANG level where I have no experience. It's far more important to be comfortable solving any simple coding challenge on demand in front of people in a high-stakes situation like an interview.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#133

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

itake wrote: post #103

scarface74 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a statistically horrible idea. The chance that your startup is going to replace even the compensation of entry level grad in any large city in the US doing enterprise development is almost 0. The “story” that has worked for me is that “no I’m not going to reverse a binary tree on the whiteboard while juggling bowling balls riding a unicycle on a tightrope. What we can do is talk like adults and we can discuss…

Just wondering, what is your TC? My understanding is that story works at Tier 3 companies that lack a structured interview process and are desperate for candidates (e.g. startups).

Seeing that I work at the alphabetically sorted first “A” in FAANG, I don’t think it could be considered a “tier 3” company.

When a recruiter from Amazon Retail reached out to me about an SDE position, I wasn’t interested in either relocating, working as a software developer at any large company or doing the prerequisite DS&A monkey dance.

We kept talking and she suggested that I apply for a fully remote role consulting (yes it’s a full time position) in AWS Professional Services.

I specialize in “application modernization” which is a fancy term for cloud enterprise application development + “Devops” + the standard type of work architects do at other companies.

But as far as the startup I worked for being “desperate”. I got hired at my previous company because of an informal lunch with the then new CTO who needed someone to lead the effort to make the company more “cloud native” and help them pivot toward a micro service architecture because they wanted to sell the services as backend to large health care companies.

Hint: I did that well enough to go from never opening the AWS console in mid 2018 to working at AWS two years later.

My interview was all behavioral where I talked through some of my previous company changing successes at a startup and a company where I led the integration effort when they were on an acquisition spree.

My “TC” is fine. It would be better if my unvested AMZN RSUs didn’t drop by half since I got hired.

(Yes I knew the gatekeeping was going to start when i wrote the first post above)

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#134

Post by hinkley » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

itake wrote: post #103

scarface74 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a statistically horrible idea. The chance that your startup is going to replace even the compensation of entry level grad in any large city in the US doing enterprise development is almost 0. The “story” that has worked for me is that “no I’m not going to reverse a binary tree on the whiteboard while juggling bowling balls riding a unicycle on a tightrope. What we can do is talk like adults and we can discuss…

Just wondering, what is your TC? My understanding is that story works at Tier 3 companies that lack a structured interview process and are desperate for candidates (e.g. startups).

Reversing a binary tree is a reference to a FAANG interview.

Money makes life easier. It isn’t the goal of your life. We aren’t playing a video game where the person who made the most money “wins” at life.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#135

Post by ufmace » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #19

> Don’t discount the physical aspect of loneliness either. If you’re like me, work is the primary shaper of your life. Work gives your life rhythm. It is the gravitational center around which the other activities in your life revolve. Then, one day, poof—it’s gone. Exhibit A of why not to take your day job too seriously. Be professional — but that’s as far as it goes. > Come up with a more, uh, positive reason for wh…

> Exhibit A of why not to take your day job too seriously. Be professional — but that’s as far as it goes.

+1 on this. His #1 is exactly why you should not let work, and especially work social events, become the "primary shaper of your life" - they can and will get rid of you anytime they think it might be convenient for them. It may not have anything to do with your skills or productivity, it may be just what someone high above you felt like doing for reasons that have nothing to do with you.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#136

Post by the_only_law » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

sjellen wrote: post #68

Being laid off can and will forever change your career risk tolerance. When I got laid off in 2008, I stayed at the next job probably 10 years longer than I should have because of effects of being laid off.

On the other hand, the aftermath of this layoff is making it pretty clear to me that going I got this field was a mistake and I was trying to get a career going for five years that was just going to end up nowhere. This might be what I need to get out for good.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#137

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

tra3 wrote: post #121

scarface74 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a statistically horrible idea. The chance that your startup is going to replace even the compensation of entry level grad in any large city in the US doing enterprise development is almost 0. The “story” that has worked for me is that “no I’m not going to reverse a binary tree on the whiteboard while juggling bowling balls riding a unicycle on a tightrope. What we can do is talk like adults and we can discuss…

The intent is to learn and produce and be an able to talk about rather than try to make money.

So if you aren’t “learning and producing” at your day job, what are you doing 40 hours a week?

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#138

Post by reaperducer » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

awillen wrote: post #106

blagie wrote: post #74

My advice: Have one or more side projects going all the time. If you get laid off, immediately start doing a startup, open-source project, or volunteering full time. A year of unemployment? Lonely, depressing, and not good on a resume. A year of launching an unsuccessful venture? Running coding classes for the underserved? Focusing full-time on contributing to pytorch? That's a lot better, both at the time and in ret…

I've taken time off between jobs without taking on any meaningful projects, and I generally haven't found it to be an issue. When I tell recruiters I just wanted time off to relax, they're sometimes skeptical, but hiring managers more often than not either respond with some variety of "Oh yeah, I did that too and it was amazing" or "Oh man that sounds so great, I'm jealous." I do apply almost entirely to smaller star…

hiring managers more often than not either respond with some variety of "Oh yeah, I did that too and it was amazing" or "Oh man that sounds so great, I'm jealous."

This only works if you get to even talk to a hiring manager.

Most applications are filtered by automatic systems. Many of those will penalize or discard your application for gaps.

The same AI bots we built when we were employed are now being used against us.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#139

Post by fein » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

eulers_secret wrote: post #108

greesil wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, I need that time to grind leetcode.

This is exactly what happened to me when I quit. “Now I’ll have time for my projects!!” Instead it’s been “Grokking Algorithms”, “The Competitive Programmers Handbook”, Alex Xu’s “System Design”, and enough leetcode that I’m actually doing more than I did at work. What sucks is that there are still lots of medium problems I cannot do. Hards are right out. Dunno what I’ll do.

What situation are people in that they have to result to this? Is this an issue with getting laid off and trying to find a FAANG job?

I was laid off from one consulting company back in 2018 or so and had a new gig with more pay a week or so later. No leetcode or dev tests, just talking with people in phone interviews. It was a company I had previously done contract work for, and they called me, but nothing at the FAANG level.

Is it an experience issue (are the people getting laid off junior devs?), because I had maybe 6 years of dev experience across various stacks by that time. In my 10 years of being an employed dev, I have never had to do leetcode interviews.

Re: Hard truths I learned when I got laid off from my SWE job

#140

Post by stcroixx » Wed, Dec 28, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

I was laid off once and didn't find much in common with anything in this article. I had two offers, not interviews, within a day or two of being laid off. Then 2-3 years later, after their outsourcing strategy imploded, they called me offering me that job back - this was the best part. Knowing they were making a mistake from day one and finally confirmation when the Cap Gemini losers were all shown the door. Maybe this is all different if your skills are more niche, but if you know something common like Java, I don't see any reason to have any break in your employment after a layoff unless that's what you want.