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Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

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Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#71
post #12

Last summer we hiked the Bruce Trail in Ontario, Canada, and discovered for myself that the local laws are NOT so free and permitting. You can't just set up camp anywhere you want, only on predefined campsites and trails. Without that freedom camping is -much- less fun.

These rules are the artifact of a different era and economics.

I've lived at two Bruce Trail trailheads, and thankfully, most people are responsible. The problem where I am now is that these laws and rights of way were made when the population was much smaller. We get loiterers, "kids" but really people in their 20s from nearby suburbs with subwoofers in their cars parked at the trailhead and yelling. Rock faces on the trail are covered in spray paint, and not the grafitti art people are so sentimental about.

I could really see a revolt against these old rights as societies change. They were made for a different time culture where there was a recognition that what made them beautiful and desirable was our respective absence and invisibility. "Leave no trace" is a pretty refined value and it's not universal.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note, what's the squarest country in the world?

Egypt probably looks the closest to one. Switzerland gets a honorary mention - the country might not be, but the people are total squares.

Thats' a bit unfair.

And back on topic, Switzerland's Wanderweg paths are numerous, very well signposted with bright yellow signs, and excellently maintained as well as clearly described in numerous guidebooks. Walking the countryside in Switzerland is a joy.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something has always fascinated me about New World borders of different kinds being so square. Iowa is divided so neatly into 99 square counties (apart from the 99th, a rectangle with a funny story), Wyoming itself is literally a four-sided shape the size of Britain. This kind of thing is so mind-blowing to a European.

I think Europeans may not really get how big some of these places are until they experience it first hand - it can easily take 9 hours at freeway speed to drive from one corner of WA state to the other (Blaine to Walla Walla), and that's if you stick to the freeways and highest possible speed highways, keep cruise control on at 115-120 km/h wherever possible, and take an absolute bare minimum of stops for gas and res…

>... it can easily take 9 hours at freeway speed ...

I think most Europeans would have built high speed railways to get around in half the time to be honest.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egypt probably looks the closest to one. Switzerland gets a honorary mention - the country might not be, but the people are total squares.

Thats' a bit unfair. And back on topic, Switzerland's Wanderweg paths are numerous, very well signposted with bright yellow signs, and excellently maintained as well as clearly described in numerous guidebooks. Walking the countryside in Switzerland is a joy.

cf https://map.schweizmobil.ch/?lang=en&layers=Wanderland%2CVel...

also https://www.schweizmobil.ch/en/hiking-in-switzerland/more-wl...

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#75
post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

It is very nice to be able to walk mostly where you want, although it doesn't always mean that landowners won't challenge you when you're walking. Also worth noting that the right to roam doesn't apply to people's gardens ( https://www.gov.scot/policies/landscape-and-outdoor-access/p... and https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/enjoying-scotlands-o... )

I stay in Scotland and had always assumed the right to roam also applied to gardens. I thought it was cool that the law would leave it up to individuals to be respectful, and not have to state obvious exceptions in its wording.

The law still does defer to folk’s common sense and decency (to not leave litter etc.) but today I learned that it does explicitly state you’re not allowed to just parade into someone’s garden!

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#76
post #59
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note for future visitors, this is actually very accessible now, the land owners have (in conjunction with the government) created a fenced off walkway the whole way down to the arch. You still need to climb over a small trestle at the end, but it's very like the pathways you would find in Scotland. https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/a-new-pathway-has-been-b...

Oh nice, this is really great to know. Unfortunately, this example was one of the most prominent, we had similar issues at murder hole beach [0] where the access was cut off by a bull in the field, and a few miles away from that, a walk that was built and funded by the council but had access removed after a dispute with the land owner [1]. And we've had similar experiences in Galway, Dublin, Kildare, Waterford,Wexfor…

Murder hole beach sure sounds like quite the destination.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Europeans may not really get how big some of these places are until they experience it first hand - it can easily take 9 hours at freeway speed to drive from one corner of WA state to the other (Blaine to Walla Walla), and that's if you stick to the freeways and highest possible speed highways, keep cruise control on at 115-120 km/h wherever possible, and take an absolute bare minimum of stops for gas and res…

>... it can easily take 9 hours at freeway speed ... I think most Europeans would have built high speed railways to get around in half the time to be honest.

7.5 hours from Strasbourg to Perpignan via train. 9 hours via car at an average of 100kmh.

So the train is approximately freeway speed.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Egypt probably looks the closest to one. Switzerland gets a honorary mention - the country might not be, but the people are total squares.

Thats' a bit unfair. And back on topic, Switzerland's Wanderweg paths are numerous, very well signposted with bright yellow signs, and excellently maintained as well as clearly described in numerous guidebooks. Walking the countryside in Switzerland is a joy.

And Switzerland features the most drop-dead-gorgeous hiking maps of any land I've visited. It feels like each mountain was hand-drawn and shaded by someone who knows and loves it, and you can often ID them from the ground based on the pictures. But the artistic details are still subtle enough not to interfere with the roads, trails, POIs, and text.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#79
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google "easement by necessity real estate law"

Ok it is created by court :/ no way I would have found the us legal term without you. In France it is automatically created, and it lowers value of your land.

State laws vary but in many cases the creation of a landlocked parcel implies the right of an easement.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#80

Tangentially related, Spain's coasts are public domain and therefore do not require freedom to roam: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_Costas_de_Espa%C3%B1a (Unfortunately, English Wikipedia does not have a translation)

California’s coasts as well!

Michigan's Great Lakes Coastlines as well.
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