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Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

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Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#51

Post by paraselene_ »

082349872349872 wrote: post #31
walthamstow wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something has always fascinated me about New World borders of different kinds being so square. Iowa is divided so neatly into 99 square counties (apart from the 99th, a rectangle with a funny story), Wyoming itself is literally a four-sided shape the size of Britain. This kind of thing is so mind-blowing to a European.

Yet somehow, despite the general tendency to squareness in political boundaries, electoral boundaries wind up with bizarre shapes...

On that note, what's the squarest country in the world?

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#52

Post by raesene9 »

maccard wrote: post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

It is very nice to be able to walk mostly where you want, although it doesn't always mean that landowners won't challenge you when you're walking.

Also worth noting that the right to roam doesn't apply to people's gardens (https://www.gov.scot/policies/landscape-and-outdoor-access/p... and https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/enjoying-scotlands-o...)

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#53

Post by belter »

carschno wrote: post #15

Tangentially related, Spain's coasts are public domain and therefore do not require freedom to roam: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_de_Costas_de_Espa%C3%B1a (Unfortunately, English Wikipedia does not have a translation)

Also Portugal has no legal concept of private beach, although some Algarve hotels try to make access difficult in a somewhat misleading way.

This is a good legal overview: "Beach Access, Property Rights, and Social-Distributive Questions: A Cross-National Legal Perspective of Fifteen Countries" - https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/7/4237/htm

The extent of shoreline is different per countries that enforce it: https://www.mdpi.com/sustainability/sustainability-14-04237/...

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#54

Post by ascaill »

maccard wrote: post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

Just a note for future visitors, this is actually very accessible now, the land owners have (in conjunction with the government) created a fenced off walkway the whole way down to the arch. You still need to climb over a small trestle at the end, but it's very like the pathways you would find in Scotland.

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/a-new-pathway-has-been-b...

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#55

Post by Fissionary »

paraselene_ wrote: post #51
082349872349872 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet somehow, despite the general tendency to squareness in political boundaries, electoral boundaries wind up with bizarre shapes...

On that note, what's the squarest country in the world?

Egypt probably looks the closest to one.

Switzerland gets a honorary mention - the country might not be, but the people are total squares.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#56

Post by elihu »

paraselene_ wrote: post #51
082349872349872 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet somehow, despite the general tendency to squareness in political boundaries, electoral boundaries wind up with bizarre shapes...

On that note, what's the squarest country in the world?

I think Sudan, Egypt, and Libya would be contenders. I suppose there's probably a general principle at work that if your country's borders were decided not by geographical or cultural boundaries but rather by an occupying bureaucracy, then there's a high probability of squareness.

Or if your territory is made up partially of land the ownership of which isn't a pressing concern for anyone because it doesn't support a population and has few resources.

The western part of the boundary between U.S. and Canada is unusually straight, but I suppose that was an expedient agreement at a time when neither side wanted to go to war over it. Not that relations were totally peaceful or friendly.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#57

Post by xcambar »

ilyt wrote: post #27
xcambar wrote: post #4

To clear out the possible confusion: it's not about cellular network roaming. It's about the freedom to navigate freely on private land because most of Scotland is privately owned.

I doubt anyone was confused....

I don't speak English natively, I am much more used to roaming when referred to telco usage abroad than when referred to its original meaning.

I doubt it's just me, but I'll be quite happy it is.

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#59

Post by maccard »

ascaill wrote: post #54
maccard wrote: post #11

I live in Scotland, but grew up in Ireland (where there is no such right). The value of this cannot be understated, IMO. It's not _just_ the right, the fact that it exists forces landowners to consider access routes. Very rarely have I found myself crossing fields full of livestock or someone's front garden, because in most places the landowners have maintained or signalled a preferred walking route. It really is won…

Just a note for future visitors, this is actually very accessible now, the land owners have (in conjunction with the government) created a fenced off walkway the whole way down to the arch. You still need to climb over a small trestle at the end, but it's very like the pathways you would find in Scotland. https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/a-new-pathway-has-been-b...

Oh nice, this is really great to know. Unfortunately, this example was one of the most prominent, we had similar issues at murder hole beach [0] where the access was cut off by a bull in the field, and a few miles away from that, a walk that was built and funded by the council but had access removed after a dispute with the land owner [1]. And we've had similar experiences in Galway, Dublin, Kildare, Waterford,Wexford, Cork and Kerry over the past few years.

[0] https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g21381844-d1...

[1] https://www.hikingdonegal.com/mc-swynne-s-gun-loop

Re: Freedom to Roam in Scotland (2019)

#60

Post by egeozcan »

Lio wrote: post #28
lmm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no right to roam in England & Wales in general; there are specific rights of way, but most land is privately owned and trespassing on it is illegal.

No it isn’t. Trespassing in England and Wales is NOT illegal. If you’re asked to leave you have to but trespass itself is not a crime, it’s purely a civil matter. See the opening sentence from the CPS website: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/trespass-and-nuisance-...

> If you’re asked to leave you have to

Really asking: Wouldn't a "no trespassing" sign be considered an ask to leave?

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