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US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

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Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#331

Post by xordon »

u10 wrote: post #306
SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Btw, these lists are csv files often...some sophistication. And surely this critically sensitive data is not left on a shared location with loose permissions, or sent around as an email attachment, right? ...right? I'm worried about the ability of this data to enable authoritarianism and I'm also worried about it being handled by those with the competence of the average government official. "Never blame on malice w…

Critical sensitive data? You can access the lists directly in several different formats, all publically available... Wouldn't be much of a sanctions list if you couldn't https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/financial-sanctio...

Sanctioned persons are not the same as politically exposed persons. You are still allowed to do business with PEPs.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#334

Post by peekopop »

hammock wrote: post #309
InTheArena wrote: post #62

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

Considering that 9/11 was in part a Saudi kingdom operation, I’m not convinced having more US-Saudi cooperation would have helped Edit: what’s with the downvotes?

Israel also.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#335

Post by krisoft »

Gasp0de wrote: post #295
krisoft wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The concern is they want to access biometric data in an automated fashion. Anything happening at the scales international travel flows at needs to be automated. > The USA are known to be careless and/or evil when it comes to dealing with sensitive data. What is the specific carelessness or evil you are worried about? > Why can't they just run someones fingerprint at the airport against their national databases I as…

Not every step needs to be automated, no. What's wrong with the way it is right now? I hand over my passport at the airport, it has my fingerprints saved on it and they can check those against whatever databases they have. No need to access European databases. The US government has just lost databases with biometric data of millions of afghan people, together with the information whether they worked for the ISAF forc…

> it has my fingerprints saved on it

Yes! This is a curious thing too. Biometric passports already have biometric data. The USA will already have your biometric information read out from your passport. One possibility is that they have reasons to not trust the biometric passports completely. Perhaps someone found a way to fake them.

Even if not, it seems prudent that they want to check all 3 things. What is in your passport, what are your own biometrics and what the issuing country has on file about you.

> No need to access European databases.

You are stating this as if obvious. X turns up at the border, why wouldn't the USA (or any country really) would want to know if they are all okay as far as their own country is concerned?

"Hey X is at the border, are they ok?" And 95% of the time the answer will be "yup". 4% will be some petty crime which has been already resolved in their own country, and then the admitting country can decide if they want to let them in. (as is their right.) Less than 1% of the cases will be something weird. Like the person is already recorded as deceased, or they are sought in relation to a crime or should be in prison or something. You check because of that small "weird" group.

> The US government has just lost databases with biometric data of millions of afghan people

The US let down the people of Afghanistan in a milliard ways. The whole thing is a shitshow. From the war, through the occupation, the drone strikes. A lot of things are terrible there. If it makes you distrust the USA I understand you.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#336

Post by choward »

InTheArena wrote: post #62

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

> It's worth noting that almost all of this is still the output of the 9/11, where US and Saudi systems did not communicate and resulted in known terrorists in Saudi Arabia being able to travel at will into the USA.

The intelligence community missed a lot of clues right at their finger tips that could have prevented 9/11. Do you think biometric tracking would have prevented 9/11? Because it sure sounds like it.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#337

Post by krapp »

tpush wrote: post #226
frankfrankfrank wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sense you do not quite understand how much essentially all of Europe is a vassal state of the group of people that also has a stranglehold on America.

> [...] group of people [...] What group of people are controlling everything? Please don't let it be Jews...

Just once I want to find out the vast shadowy conspiracy controlling everything is the Hare Krishnas, or the Mormons or... the Armenian Mafia. The Phoebus lightbulb cartel. A coven of witches. Anyone but "the Jews." Again.

Even the current moral panic and conspiracy complex around transgendered people leads to anti-semitism if you follow the strings and thumbtacks.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#338

Post by jacooper »

pessimizer wrote: post #96
InTheArena wrote: post #62

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

I'm not sure that hyperbole is possible when you're discussing the necessity of having worldwide biometric "terrorist" lists that countries like Saudi Arabia would participate in. ----- edit: How would you code "terrorism through public demonstrations of driving while female" or "terrorism through being Yemen?" "Terrorism though applying for a marriage license after being mildly critical in the WaPo."

> terrorism through public demonstrations of driving while female

Do you think Saudi Arabia is the Taliban or what? Even when it was banned, it wasn't the big of an offense.

And yes its no longer banned, and there are a lot of women drivers now.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#339

Post by judge2020 »

LarryMullins wrote: post #77

Whether it's good local privacy laws in your country or a good privacy-respecting TOS from a company, both are basically worthless when a bigger entity comes barging into the picture. So your government collects biometric data but passes laws promising not to misuse it... you may very well find that those promises are worth less than dirt when a country with leverage over your own starts making demands that your gove…

> It doesn't matter what promises are given, because all promises can be broken with enough leverage.

This has always been the case. Before, it was the threat of imprisonment for speaking out against your government, and having higher taxes levied. Now, it's simply privacy, since that is the key to the countries/companies gaining without literally stealing from you.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#340

Post by jeremyjh »

satellite2 wrote: post #327
omgomgomgomg wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finance background here. All these PEP, sanction lists, ofac monitoring, financial sanction lists already exist and every company with a worthwile monetary turnover ever facing an audit runs these background checks. The laws are there, they are called the aml directives, the lists are there. And most of the entries there are provided by eitjer uk or us entities, youll usually find foreign military personells data the…

Those are blacklists, i.e. known criminals. The US is asking for whitelists, i.e. everyone and without motives

No it isn’t. There is no bulk access, just responses to queries of biometric data for persons of interest.
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