How is Musk still allowed to be CEO? Serious question. Why don’t large shareholders demand some fresh blood?
Tesla’s Board of Directors values their friendships with Musk over their fiduciary duties or corporate governance.
Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
331–340 of 387 posts
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are really good cars actually (FSD Bulls** excluded)
> They are really good cars actually (FSD Bulls* excluded) They're not tho, the materials, QA, and fit and finish is absolutely garbage, has been for years, and apparently it's getting worse ( https://youtu.be/kIW4moIM0zM ).
I've got a 2021 model 3 and dont have any of the issues you are talking about, I must obviously be the exception.
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#333In my opinion, the valuation of Tesla was reasonable based on the fact that they were making strides in driving AI But at the time, humans did not yet know that FSD seems to be un-achievable with a non-general AI. At least with current techniques. People invested Tesla thinking something was possible and it turns out it isn’t. It happens
Everyone in the industry has always known Tesla wasn't close. And current AI seems to be good enough for what Waymo and Cruise are aiming for.
Despite years of dominating the headlines, the problem is Tesla was investing way less in research than the leaders and then tying both hands behind their backs with no Lidar and HD maps. I also think not trying to really master even a geofenced area is making them kick the can down the road on the thorny problems
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#334It's time to fire the CEO. Musk is like the Manager who brought a club from 3rd division to the Premier League, but he was paid spectacularly and the club doesn't owe him nothing more than a fair handshake and a great send-off with a guaranteed spot in the club HOF. It's time to thank him and bring in an adult who can guarantee a top-4 Champions League spot consistently season after season, otherwise the club will fo…
> otherwise the club will follow the manager on his descending arc down to 3rd Division again.
I think it's too late for that. Tesla has lost half of their potential customer base because Musk couldn't stay out of politics.
If Tesla fires Musk, Tesla loses the fanboys. If they keep him, they lose everyone else. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't right now.
But that said, it's probably best that Tesla take their losses now and fire him and bring in someone else that can restructure the company in the downturn.
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#335It's time to fire the CEO. Musk is like the Manager who brought a club from 3rd division to the Premier League, but he was paid spectacularly and the club doesn't owe him nothing more than a fair handshake and a great send-off with a guaranteed spot in the club HOF. It's time to thank him and bring in an adult who can guarantee a top-4 Champions League spot consistently season after season, otherwise the club will fo…
“ Musk is like the Manager who brought a club from 3rd division to the Premier League, but he was paid spectacularly and the club doesn't owe him nothing more than a fair handshake and a great send-off with a guaranteed spot in the club HOF.”
Absurd comparison. There is no Tesla without Elon. There is no EV market without Elon. Elon is the first non traditional CEO to blow past all others. Only comparison can be made is to Steve Jobs. People constantly doubt Elon but time and time again he pushes technology like no other. Elon didn’t make Tesla stock overpriced, dumb investors did. Elon knows recession is coming and is going to hit another win making the most popular website in the world popular. Tesla will stand the test of time because of Elon. Any other CEO will make Tesla dissapear
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#336Going by its P/E, its still overpriced compared to every other car manufacture, but its getting back down to a rational level. Its only 6x Ford and GM and about 4x Toyota.
I always used to laugh when people would bring up battery tech and solar when talking about TSLA's absurd valuation, but I think it's starting to become more relevant as it approaches a more realistic market cap. It's still too high though.
I listened into the Twitter Space with Elon and some of his more bullish investors. There were three main pints that had them making Tesla more than a common car company.
1. Solar and Battery Tech 2. Entry into commercial trucking. 3. Bringing on their own Lithium refineries (IIRC the main thing constricting Lithium production isn’t extracting it’s Refining) that being said Elon said they were planning on bringing on their own refinery capacity in 2 years when the current lead time was generally 7.
Personally not buying any of those.
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#337It's time to fire the CEO. Musk is like the Manager who brought a club from 3rd division to the Premier League, but he was paid spectacularly and the club doesn't owe him nothing more than a fair handshake and a great send-off with a guaranteed spot in the club HOF. It's time to thank him and bring in an adult who can guarantee a top-4 Champions League spot consistently season after season, otherwise the club will fo…
But then Eddie Howe moved to Newcastle and is on track to get them into the coveted Champions League spots... Is that a risk you wish to take?
But Elon has already moved on mentally and is currently on track to get Twitter relegated as well so I'm not sure we need to worry about what he could do with TSLA if it received unlimited funding from Saudi Arabia
(hmm... more overlap in the analogy than I thought!)
I don't think a regular CEO is going to be able to restore the reality distortion field that got TSLA overvalued by that much in the first place, but they might at least look interested in selling cars.
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#338Could be another dotcom era Cisco, which still hasn’t regained it’s peak [1]. Cisco had the biggest market cap in the world for a while. Tesla could be an even worse investment if it ends up being just an overvalued car company. It also has the biggest ‘bus factor’ of any company in SP500 ie. if Musk quits/falls ill the price will likely dive severely. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-investing-1-000-12.…
> if Musk quits/falls ill the price will likely dive severely. I could see this going either way. They won't come up with a wild world-changing idea without him, and you might lose some fanboy investors and employees, but a competent manager with auto industry experience would kill/spin off power wall and solar projects, scale back self-driving promises, and fix reliability issues. It'd be a better car company, but a…
Long term that might be better, but it's still priced like a dream company.
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#339I was not interested in the stock at the highs. I am buying as much as I can currently at this level. Musk has always been a wild card but he can deliver. I wish he had not bought Twitter but it doesn't really change my outlook on Tesla, SpaceX or long-term the boring company. Most of the freak out over Musk is just the left's anger over his views. I just ignore it. Dude is eccentric.
Yeah, obviously alienating the target market for your company will destroy your deliveries and your stock price. Shanghai factory is currently shut down and it will continue the shutdown also in January. The cars are currently sold with a 7500$ discount in US and in other countries. If you think that the carbon-loving maga hats are going to buy EVs you will be nicely surprised in the next months.
Tesla Shanghai is partially shut down for maintenance, other factories do this as well. In the past months it produced the record number of cars.
>currently sold with a 7500$ discount
Discount compared to what? They have been rising prices in the past two years since they couldn't satisfy the demand. They still have the highest margins by far.
Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
Uh, they already have debuted, and not even this year
And yet Tesla is still the market leader.
Like someone else has already mentioned Porsche and Mercedes actually offer very compelling options at the Model S/X price range that actually feel like luxury and when you paying over $100K you deserve some luxury and Hyundai, Kia, Genesis and even WV offer very compelling alternatives to the Model 3 and Y and they often are cheaper and overall provide better experience for an every-day car.
Whilst Tesla’s are still selling quite well I think they still are riding their early “we are the only ones who can do EVs right” wave and “Musk fame” and with both kinda dying down I don’t see Tesla being dominant for much longer.
There is too much competition from companies that are far more competent at making cars that are actually useful, all it took is for battery technology to become just a little bit more democratized and for car manufacturers to stop treating EVs as some concept car fab ala the i3…
The Taycan is one of the best cars I’ve ever have driven not just as far as EV’s go but period, and I’m getting to test drive the EQS SUV in about a week and from what I heard it also is a fantastic car.
And this is whilst not accounting for the mass of new EV companies and offerings coming out of China which some of them seem to be quite competitive on all fronts with Tesla too and this can really hurt Tesla especially in the Chinese market which I’m going to bet is a major growth driver for them.
Unless Tesla pulls out some magic battery tech out of their ass and I mean like truly magic as in not something that other manufacturers can compensate for by putting larger batteries or by slightly lowering the power output of their platforms I really don’t see them even remaining competitive in the long term.
Yes they still have their charging network but ironically it’s quickly becoming outdated with the new super fast charging standards coming out and most importantly it’s really only proving Tesla a huge advantage in the US as their charging network outside of it is of a much smaller scale if it exists at all.