Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

digit.so36.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 432 posts

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#231

Post by murderfs »

survirtual wrote: post #188
jolux wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. Not when it comes to server-based software.

Yes, actually. - If you host your own servers you can still verify. - if you are using well-designed, human-centric software, untrusted servers (read: all servers you do not have control of / cannot audit) would not have any access to private data due to encryption, and clients can be verified to make sure decryption only occurs on the client side The trouble is, this kind of software is a poison pill to advertising.…

You say "human-centric", but you really mean "what I want". Many more humans would be upset at being unable to recover their data if they forget their password than would be pleased by this.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#232

Post by LarryMullins »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #217
LarryMullins wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say hypothetically, Facebook buys Signal. They get all the code and signing keys, then use those to push a new update to the Signal app. This update decrypts your messages using the key on your device, then sends those decrypted messages to Facebook. What are you going to do about it? Call your senators, who are now in love with Facebook for giving the federal government access to these previously private commu…

Fork signal, put together a non-profit to run the nodes, start paying $1/mo or somesuch, and stop using the facebookified version.

That's great if you stay on top of the news, see it coming and get your data out of the way before the compromised app is pushed to your phone. Maybe habitual HN users are safe, but I think most Signal users would be compromised like this.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#233

Post by astrange »

0xBDB wrote: post #174
hardlianotion wrote: post #23

One question that always seems to be unclear and insufficiently negotiated is reciprocity. What is the US going to offer in return. If they do offer to reciprocate, it actually needs to be delivered before the deal is live. That said, I think it is a shitty deal for these leaky, insecure, bad faith entities to be able to negotiate off to the side with our sensitive personal data like this.

"What is the US going to offer in return." Well, not our biometric data, certainly. You could get that on eBay. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/27/technology/for-sale-on-eb...

It’s not especially valuable or private anyway. If you leave something everywhere you go (ie you can’t protect it without a spacesuit), and there’s nothing special about it compared to anyone else’s (in terms of economic value), it can’t be either of those things.

People are especially sensitive about their DNA since they think pharma companies can somehow develop new expensive drugs just by looking at it. (There’s actual discrimination issues on this one of course, not to mention family drama…)

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#234

Post by omgomgomgomg »

cm2187 wrote: post #87

For once, I would expect at least reciprocity. If the US suspends its visa free programme with Shenghen area countries (assuming ESTA isn't a visa, which it really is), I'd expect US travellers to cease to have visa-free access to Schenghen too.

I wonder if this will be in the french, german, italian newspapers and where. And if it gets tv time.

In Bruxelles, this will be discussed and qhile they arent elected directly, they cannot pass any crap whatsoever there, there is always oposition on everything there.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#235

Post by pelorat »

cm2187 wrote: post #87

For once, I would expect at least reciprocity. If the US suspends its visa free programme with Shenghen area countries (assuming ESTA isn't a visa, which it really is), I'd expect US travellers to cease to have visa-free access to Schenghen too.

EU is implementing their own version of ESTA in 2023. US citizens will have to register online and pay a fee to enter Europe starting sometime next year, and their biometrics will be collected.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#236

Post by jolux »

survirtual wrote: post #188
jolux wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These two in conjunction allow you to verify trust. Not when it comes to server-based software.

Yes, actually. - If you host your own servers you can still verify. - if you are using well-designed, human-centric software, untrusted servers (read: all servers you do not have control of / cannot audit) would not have any access to private data due to encryption, and clients can be verified to make sure decryption only occurs on the client side The trouble is, this kind of software is a poison pill to advertising.…

> would not have any access to private data due to encryption

It's pretty difficult to fully scrub yourself of the metadata involved in making a connection to a server. For sure it can be minimized, like Signal does. But this has inherent UX tradeoffs that most people are not willing to make, like requiring you share your phone number to use the service, and not having server-based backup (yet, at least).

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#237

Post by LarryMullins »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #223
LarryMullins wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you're certain America today and into the indeterminate future has no leverage over your country, can't subvert your elections, bribe or blackmail your politicians, threaten sanctions or worse, then you still have to worry about American spies simply stealing that data. Such private data should never be collected in the first place. You may as well stack up gold bars in your home, in plain view of street-leve…

I live in America and I'm not convinced that America has leverage over my country. The steering wheel on this thing appears to be broken.

Understandable position, but I think you should be aware that the US Government is capable of moving fast and decisively in rare but unpredictable circumstances. Only 44 days elapsed between 2001/9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act on 2001/10/25.

Things usually don't change that fast, but nobody can truly predict the geopolitical landscape even half a year into the future.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#238

Post by omgomgomgomg »

FpUser wrote: post #16

Starting from WWI western world is moving from what was basically complete freedom of movement to a corral. Think the best response would be something in line of go fuck yourself. No visa waiver - be my guest and have your tourism industry go belly up. Once tourism industry goes economic cooperation might eventually follow. Maybe this will teach our masters a bit. P.S. Being originally from USSR freedom of movement w…

I understand before ww1 passports werent even a thing, it was a "temporary" measure.

However, freedom of movement within the EU works flawlessly, its just that once youre in a new place and want to settle down, the old habits prevail, opening a bank account and such should be easy, but good luck with that.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#239

Post by jolux »

devmunchies wrote: post #187
ecef9-8c0f-4374 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok. now the US government demands not to use modern encryption and open source. And we are back at square one.

That could go to the supreme court, maybe violates the 4th amendment? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" meaning, I got the right to secure my sh*t.

> I got the right to secure my sh*t

I don't know if you've noticed, but the Supreme Court routinely flouts long-held interpretations of statute for nakedly ideological reasons. Rights don't mean anything if the government isn't willing to grant them, unfortunately. I would not bet on this court preserving a right to encryption as you describe it.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#240

Post by cscurmudgeon »

dzikimarian wrote: post #206
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just from the outside

I'm inside and I'm pretty happy comparing to alternatives.

Happy to hear that.

I am inside the US and have been inside and lived in many countries. As an immigrant from Asia, I am happy most in the US and so are millions of permanent immigrants including tens of thousands from Europe every year :)

Post reply on HN