Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 387 posts

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#51

Post by fwip »

vardump wrote: post #39
browningstreet wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because of his follow-up tweet -- his first tweet ("Epic thread") was fully ambiguous. He knows better (after all, he owns the platform) so he's also willingly trolling by not being clearer. That said, the media response to it -- pumping his first tweet without clarifying by virtue of the second tweet -- is emblematic of everything wrong with our current news/media/social-media culture.

I'd say mockery was pretty apparent from the context in the first place. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1607494455720022018 > Epic thread!! If you had no idea from who that tweet was from, wouldn't you regard it as mockery?

Musk genuinely still uses "epic" to describe things he likes.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#52

Post by asfgionio2346 »

I find myself confused about the purpose of stock markets. How can we arrange our society around a system that is so massively irrational? A few years ago Tesla was worth as much as the rest of the car industry put together. Even if you believed Tesla was going to become a perfect monopoly, its valuation still would not have been justified. Now people are acting like the sky is falling when this pipsqueak manufacturer is still (supposedly) worth twice as much as Toyota.

The most spectacular failure I know of is the case of Twitter. We knew the value of the stock to the penny starting in April of last year, but for months it traded at over a 25% discount. Why do we pretend this system of price discovery works when it can't even discover a price that has been printed in newspapers?

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#53

Post by panick21_ »

lkrubner wrote: post #16

"Tesla has plummeted 56.5% over the past three months through Friday, while the S&P 500 has gained 5.4%" Much of Tesla's value was propped up by the personal brand of Elon Musk. And he has done significant damage to that brand, over the last few months, as he's courted a far-right extremist following. That has changed how most people look at him. Certainly many of the people who buy Tesla's are a bit left-of-center,…

Musk simply never thought in terms of the 5D chess that people always accussed him off. He was always just basically saying what he believed.

On this free speech issue he simply had logiced himself into incoherent tangle.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#54

Post by xwowsersx »

CharlesW wrote: post #6

From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 , written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used T…

If B is referring to this tweet https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1607494455720022018, I feel the need to point out that this was obviously trolling/sarcasm. People can criticize Musk all they want — hell, they can even argue the trolling/sarcasm is inappropriate — but pretending that Musk was "praising" that batshit thread is beyond silly.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#55

Post by _the_inflator »

CharlesW wrote: post #6

From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 , written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used T…

Tesla could go out of business or become a takeover candidate. Electric car subsidies are on the line in many cases in EU.

And the coolness factor in contrast to other established brands was clearly damaged by Elno's escapades - and it's not getting any bette

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#56

Post by fundad »

kylecordes wrote: post #29
CharlesW wrote: post #6

From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 , written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used T…

It appeared to many observers that Musk was mocking the Russian propaganda, he then made the mockery explicit later. I don't understand the thesis that Musk is somehow pro-Russia. Generally his ventures are against Russia interests: SpaceX, launched in the aftermath of Russia being uninterested in selling a leftover rocket to Musk, now dominates the launch industry to the detriment of Russia, among other things halti…

I think it’s because giving any “territory” to Russia justified see the pretense of ending war isn’t believable.

If you don’t believe it condemns more people to be colonial subjects and the be redeployed to destroy Ukraine, I can see the confusion.

A lot of tycoons aren’t commenting about the war at all if the fear how the judgement will affect business.

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#57

Post by astrange »

kylecordes wrote: post #29
CharlesW wrote: post #6

From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 , written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used T…

It appeared to many observers that Musk was mocking the Russian propaganda, he then made the mockery explicit later. I don't understand the thesis that Musk is somehow pro-Russia. Generally his ventures are against Russia interests: SpaceX, launched in the aftermath of Russia being uninterested in selling a leftover rocket to Musk, now dominates the launch industry to the detriment of Russia, among other things halti…

Elon doesn't exactly tweet like a rational logical being at the moment. It seemed to me he was praising the tweet because it mentioned him and said he was going to be president of the US (or something like that) so he thought it was cool. Then he just snuck back in and denounced it later when he remembered he has a security clearance.

He's already taken calls with Putin and randomly decided to announce Ukraine should negotiate peace with Russia, then lost interest and dropped it.

(Note, the way Elon "talks" in tweets would be sarcastic if it was someone younger, but remember he's middle aged and still calls things epic unironically.)

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#58

Post by AzzieElbab »

greenthrow wrote: post #43
kylecordes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appeared to many observers that Musk was mocking the Russian propaganda, he then made the mockery explicit later. I don't understand the thesis that Musk is somehow pro-Russia. Generally his ventures are against Russia interests: SpaceX, launched in the aftermath of Russia being uninterested in selling a leftover rocket to Musk, now dominates the launch industry to the detriment of Russia, among other things halti…

This take does not track with reality. Musk pushed Russia propaganda about Ukrane and repeatedly defended his position.

Examples?

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#59

Post by jmyeet »

Tesla has been (and still is IMHO) overvalued. It is sold as a tech company when really it's just a car company. You compare it to any other car company and it looks horribly overvalued. Last year (at a higher share price) it's valuation was about $800,000 per car they produced that year. That just doesn't make sense.

Tesla has been massively propped up by government subsidies and carbon credits, to the point that they tried not to break out their dependence on such things [1]. As more car companies embrace EVs those carbon credits are going to go away and the government subsidies are going to be more spread out.

Tesla has had years of over-promising and under-delivering, most recently with the Cybertruck. The Ford F150 Lightning is a dire warning for tesla. It takes a hugely popular truck and makes what seems to be a highly-regarded EV out of it. It remains to be seen if Ford can maintain volume and control costs. But the point remains that the F150 Lightning is real and the Cybertruck isn't.

Additionally, Teslas have been plagued with QC and design issues. The seat controls were prone to breaking to the point Tesla issued a software update to disable "excessive" seat adjustments [2] as just one example.

And then there's Elon himself. Elon's target market are, bsaically, rich coastal liberals. His politics are alienating his customer base.

But here's my favorite part: Elon has done more to dispel the myth of meritocracy than anyone who has come before him. Yes he still has his stans ("D** riders" if you prefer) but there sure seem to be less of them than a year ago. They seem to have been replaced by run-of-the-mill conservatives.

Many (including myself) were fooled by SpaceX but it's become increasingly clear that SpaceX succeeded in spite of Elon not because of him. There are a bunch of reports that SpaceX has competent management that has effectively insulated the company from Elon. As an aside, SpaceX too has had problems hitting targets throughout its whole history.

This is really breaking the spell of capitalist propaganda. The likes of Elon aren't so rich because they're amazing geniuses. It's really more luck and privilege than anything else.

Elon's fumbling of Twitter and desperate need for approval (eg "should I remain as CEO?" followed by "be careful what you wish for" is basically "do you like me?") has been entertaining to watch but at least a few people might stop venerating princelings who have simply failed upwards their entire careers. and that counts for something.

[1]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-disclosed-government-cre...

[2]: https://www.techtimes.com/articles/271257/20220131/tesla-dis...

Re: Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

#60

Post by yreg »

friedman23 wrote: post #5
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #2

Probably closer to fair value now, still overpriced though.

Funny enough I think it's actually undervalued now. Tesla has bought up all the mining rights for the minerals required to ramp up battery production and will likely be the only EV manufacturer that's not supply constrained for the next decade. I'm still not bought in yet, probably a lot more room for it to crater.

TSLA P/E: 36

AMZN P/E: 75

MCD P/E: 34

Post reply on HN