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Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

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Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#91

Post by hotpotamus »

bombcar wrote: post #16
ipython wrote: post #14

Found this interesting reading as to a possible reason why their flight system seems so much more fragile than the legacy carriers: https://www.inc.com/kelly-main/southwest-becomes-one-of-amer...

It sounds reasonable but I’m surprised that it’s not “cost efficient” to have a few sore planes and crews strategically located around the USA - you’d only need three or four to be able to respond within hours to any scheduling mishap. Margins must be quite low.

I remember reading years ago that Fedex actually kept one or two spare planes in the air every night to respond to breakdowns.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#92

Post by danaris »

yellow_lead wrote: post #75
mathattack wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underinvestment. Part due to a lack of demand the past 3 years, part due to a race to the bottom on pricing and quality that predates the pandemic.

We've heard a lot of stories about scheduling systems getting overwhelmed at airlines in the past few years. I wonder if any airlines are making a push to modernize them. Or is the business so low margin that they can't afford it?

"So low margin" that they spent years doing major stock buybacks...

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#93

Post by kayfox »

morganw wrote: post #38
rhaway84773 wrote: post #2

It feels like SouthWest has been at the center of every scheduling disaster in the US over the past few years. Even if it’s out of their control (many of the issues were within their control), it seems Southwest fails way worse than every other US airline.

This one affected a lot of people traveling to the 2021 US Grand Prix in Austin & it supposedly didn't affect Southwest [my Alaska flight was cancelled after four hours of "any minute now"]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2021/10/2...

Southwest flies all the flights it markets, they do not contract regional carriers for any flights like all of the airlines SkyWest is contracted by.

Regional carriers typically operate smaller aircraft with less senior crew and sorta serve to expand the mainline carriers markets and also often serve to feed the mainline carriers experienced pilots for their mainline aircraft.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#94

Post by logifail »

atdrummond wrote: post #86
logifail wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that many airlines allow ticketing staff at the airport (that is if they didn't get rid of them all, yes, I'm looking at you, British Airways at LHR) much more leeway in terms of rerouting, particularly on other routes or indeed carriers. We had this on 25 December, our flight to London was cancelled. Automatically rebooked to our destination later that day, but our party (2 adults, 3 kids) was split up…

The problem is WN doesn’t interline with other carriers. They can only rebook on other WN flights.

> The problem is WN doesn’t interline with other carriers

I've not had the pleasure of WN, but have used several European LCCs. There are some situations where good travel insurance is possibly the only thing you can rely on.

Fix your own alternative travel (believe me, having been disrupted on Christmas Day this is sometimes easier said than done), demand a refund from your original carrier, and claim everything back from your insurer.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#95

Post by gernb »

moeffju wrote: post #73
gernb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm a spoiled engineer but if a company ever required a doctor's note I'd just come to work sick, walk into my boss's office and cough as hard as I could directly in their face. Actually, I'd just not take that job.

Trust is great, but society consists of many complex interlocking systems, so at least some level of verification and attestation is needed. Besides: Doing that knowingly and intentionally would likely qualify as assault (besides being a morally shitty thing to do).

If you don't trust me don't hire me. I could cause all kinds of issues for your company. I won't because I'm trustworthy. If you treat me as untrustworthy by not trusting that I'm sick when I say I'm stick then you don't trust me. If you don't trust me I'm not working for you.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#96

Post by bombcar »

hotpotamus wrote: post #91
bombcar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds reasonable but I’m surprised that it’s not “cost efficient” to have a few sore planes and crews strategically located around the USA - you’d only need three or four to be able to respond within hours to any scheduling mishap. Margins must be quite low.

I remember reading years ago that Fedex actually kept one or two spare planes in the air every night to respond to breakdowns.

Sadly fedex being late on deliveries probably affects and costs them more than southwest cancelling a flight.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#97

Post by hnarn »

deaddodo wrote: post #64
Semaphor wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s downright illegal according to Colorado labor laws. Interesting, that's the first time I hear of a US law being better for employee protection than here in Germany. Do they have limited sick days? That could explain it, as they are obviously unlimited here, but doctor's notes are commonly required after 0-1 days.

It's not a US law, it's a state law. And there are plenty of laws throughout the union that are "better" (more favorable to the employee) than in various places in the EU. California, for instance, has pretty strict employee/tenant protections; along with Oregon, New York, etc. There are also others that are substantially worse (Mississippi, Alabama, etc). You can't compare US Federal law to German Federal law (in th…

> It's not a US law, it's a state law.

In my opinion (I am not attempting to state facts), the semantics of what is a “US law” and what is an “EU law” differ, because the US is a nation and the EU is not.

Therefore it’s my opinion that in order for something to be a “US law”, it’s enough that it’s a law anywhere in the US. I think laws differing across the US is already implied which is why care is taken to label something a “federal” law or crime when it does not.

In the EU however, any law that semantically fits into what could be called an “EU law” is a top-down mandate due to the fact that the EU is not a nation but a group of nations, so calling for example a law that exclusively exists in Poland an “EU law” becomes nonsensical when it didn’t even originate from the EU organization. The US is (at least not primarily) just an “organization of states” regardless what one might want to believe from reading the constitution. It’s very much a monolithic nation state in a way that the EU is not and possibly never will be.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#98

Post by mathattack »

danaris wrote: post #92
yellow_lead wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've heard a lot of stories about scheduling systems getting overwhelmed at airlines in the past few years. I wonder if any airlines are making a push to modernize them. Or is the business so low margin that they can't afford it?

"So low margin" that they spent years doing major stock buybacks...

From the shareholders perspective that may be better than trying a modernization that they can’t pull off.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#99

Post by mathattack »

yellow_lead wrote: post #75
mathattack wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underinvestment. Part due to a lack of demand the past 3 years, part due to a race to the bottom on pricing and quality that predates the pandemic.

We've heard a lot of stories about scheduling systems getting overwhelmed at airlines in the past few years. I wonder if any airlines are making a push to modernize them. Or is the business so low margin that they can't afford it?

It’s hard and costly to modernize. Look how many companies can’t pull off an ERP upgrade in a good market, let alone such a cyclical one.

Re: Massive Southwest Airlines disruption leaves customers stranded

#100

Post by m348e912 »

ars wrote: post #29
m348e912 wrote: post #7

There's an unsubstantiated rumor that 120 Southwest ramp agents walked off the job at Denver International Airport after the VP of operations out of Dallas sent a demanding (and possibly unreasonable) memo to the Denver staff banning sick time without a doctors note and requiring mandatory overtime. https://twitter.com/AtSouthwest/status/1606543397996855296 If true, it could account for a majority of SW's cancellatio…

You have cause and effect backwards. That memo appears to be issued as a result of all the flight problems. And it says it's a temporary emergency policy due to the current trouble they are having.

Here's what I think happened. Storm happens, Southwest demands all hands on deck with stipulations outlined in that memo, staff gets upset and walk off making the situation worse. The only evidence I have is that Southwest seems to be uniquely impacted by the storm
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