Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Or maybe grow up & don’t circulate political manifestos at work?
Or maybe don't write about anyone being punched.
Yonatan could have easily made his points without including violence.
Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
151–160 of 232 posts
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#152wtf those “preferences” are a result of history - societies raised women to take care (take care of their family and house chores) while men went out in the wild to play, study and work. - women had to be “empathetic” because understanding one’s mood was vital to their survival throughout history: in times where it was “ok” and even expected that women were beaten up to make them more docile or whatever. - women were…
Sure, for the millions of years that make up human history, men went out into the wild to play with their weapons, wars and animals while women had to stay and vacuum the cave just like the male finch condemns his female finch to stay with the eggs under threat of domestic violence, so he can go play with the owls and cats.
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure you'd learn the most from the hunter-gatherers, who have the narrowest leeway in their survival and must have everyone doing exactly what they're best suited at. A fat rich society with more money than they can spend, like Norway or Qatar or Brunei, is likely more instructive.
A hunter gatherer society would be the exact opposite of highly specialised ("doing what you're best at"). It has little margin for loss of function, so a poor performer is better and more likely to survive then losing the performance of the function entirely.
I'm pretty sure what they meant was "if you need to go and hunt and kill your food, then the physically stronger members of the group have to go and do that, and that means someone has to stay and look after the kids and the members of the group who can produce food for the infants likely fit that bill"
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks... This seems pretty counterintuitive though. Sweden: 29 United States: 49 Switzerland: 58 Thailand: 65 Italy: 75 Portugal: 99 > The extent to which the members of a culture feel threatened by ambiguous or unknown situations and have created beliefs and institutions that try to avoid these is reflected in the score on Uncertainty Avoidance. My experience is that those numbers pretty much rank in reverse when i…
When I compare various countries on the "masculinity" index, it seems to me that they're all completely backwards.
Remember when that hypermasculine Russian military recruiting commercial went viral? They only give Russia 36 on the masculinity index. (US gets 62)
Here's the construct description:
>The Masculinity side of this dimension represents a preference in society for achievement, heroism, assertiveness, and material rewards for success. Society at large is more competitive. Its opposite, Femininity, stands for a preference for cooperation, modesty, caring for the weak and quality of life. Society at large is more consensus-oriented.
>In the business context Masculinity versus Femininity is sometimes also related to as “tough versus tender” cultures.
https://www.hofstede-insights.com/models/national-culture/
I checked a bunch of countries -- I couldn't find a country ranked as more masculine than Austria, or less masculine than Sweden.
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#155The definition of working with people vs. working with things doesn't seem obvious to me. As a software engineer I am working a lot with my computer. Therefore I must be working with things! But... I am just as much working with my soft skills. Scrum retros, talking to stakeholders, discussions on design with fellow engineers, testing with end-users. Some days I don't spend even a minute working with "things". I don'…
This is a comment only an engineer could come up with. It's not a "grey zone" ffs. You compare talking to people in order to do your job with teaching a class of pubescent kids or wiping old people's asses. Those are not even remotely comparable.
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not what was advocated. He recognised, as a manager, that Damore was that person that provokes people to the point where normal everyday people want to punch him. Part of being a good manager is recognising people's traits.
That is victim blaming. Recognizing that certain action (e.g. dressing in a certain way or writing an essay about gender difference) would get one in a certain violent-esque trouble.
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Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> On average women find tech work grindingly boring. > No evidence of that Are you for real? Have you ever tried to talk to any women about technology? With occasional exceptions, the response you will get is a face that has completely glazed over. This is only a problem for people who believe in egalitarian ideology - where every group is supposed to be at all times "equal" in ways that are simply not bourne out in…
You wanted evidence, not anecdotes. But if you want anecdotes then yes, I've even worked with a bunch of women in tech. You can't make generalizations based off your own experiences though, obviously I'll bump into women in tech while working in tech. But similarly, if the people you bump into aren't already in tech, then it shouldn't be too surprising that they're not as excited as you are about it. You believe they…
> You can be right that it's common to see and still wrong that it's an innate part of being a woman.
It's not "an innate part of being a woman".
It's an innate part of being human.
Last I checked, around 2% of people go into tech. That means that 98% of all people prefer something else.
Is there something wrong with them that needs explaining? Don't think so.
Is there something wrong with society because these 98% of people enjoy something else more? I don't think so.
Who made the 2% of people who like being in tech the standard? So that any deviation from this standard must be explained by ... evil forces? Genetics?
Is there something wrong with the 2% of people who do enjoy going into tech because 98% of people do not? I don't think so.
Now the genders skew slightly differently, for men it's more like 97% prefer to do something else, and with women it's 99% who prefer to do something else. So what? Let people do what they want to do.
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#158My experience matched the article assertion.
I worked in a financial company in Norway as a consultant for few years on IT project. In a division with over 20 people only 2 were women with one of them being an immigrant from a not-so-rich country. My boss even complained few times that the upper management put pressure on him to do something about it, but he simply cannot find suitable women.
Then at the management level things were more even. Like 30 % were women.
Then there was a few programmers and system administrators from India working on outsourced projects . Like 50% were women. Yet anything related to management position in Indian company was exclusively for men. That was including minor management roles like a team lead even when everybody else on the team was woman.
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#159There is nothing wrong about having male dominated roles and female dominated roles, pushing equity down everyone's throat only profits corporation exploiting the less fortuned.
It is well known in healthcare that women are better nurses and males are better surgeons, in general.
Re: Women like working with people, men like working with things, all over the world
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Have you ever tried to talk to any women about technology? All the time - they love technology. Sue runs all the books on the local family farm (which is a large multi million $ enterprise), she pulls in all the GPS logs to a NAS, databases the livestock tags, has bots watching the stock sales. Robyn runs a super computing facility for the local SKA project (Square kilometre array) after being the Vice C. of the lo…
This is so tedious. I said there were plenty of exceptions. As with many human traits it's a distribution with long tails at the extremities, and plenty of overlap between groups. This doesn't in any way negate the existence of a mean difference between groups. In the real world innate sex differences are a fact of life. That's the whole point of the paper attached to this thread. Egalitarians believe that society wo…
The interesting part here is that there are plenty of exceptions - and those exceptions tend be clustered in different societies and cultures.
I'm not advocating you change wherever you're at, I'm just delighted that where I am women drive road trains & haul paks, design ships, wire buildings, advance astrophyysics, etc (and, for that matter, so do the men).
It certainly makes your bemoaning "have you tried talking to women about tech?" a non issue hereabouts.
If you're happy with your bit of "the real world" (ie. a subset of the actual real world) then good on you, go forth and enjoy - and perhaps bemoan less.