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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

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Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#311

Post by ryandrake »

phil21 wrote: post #285
survirtual wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in rural areas have some kind of food store with canned goods. With things like Soylent and Huel, those can also be used. I had 6 months of Soylent back in the day. 2 bags of Huel can last about 6 days and fits in a small bag — it is one of my hacks for backpacking. If you haven’t already, I recommend having a supply of canned beans, canned tuna, canned meats to preference, canned sardines, bulk rice (you…

> If I was in the position most of you are in (I have opted out of the housing market for ethical reasons), I’d also be powered mostly via solar and a 3 day reserve battery for the house. You are getting a lot of flak for this, but I completely agree. For the salaries many on HN take home (well into the six figures) this should be far more of a priority. There is almost no excuse to not do it in any semi-rural settin…

Count me among the people for whom COVID was the needed wake-up call. I realized how dependent I was on civilization for things like energy, water, and so on, and watched neighborhoods break down into chaos and madness over a few supply shocks. It was the kick in the pants I needed to move the fam out to the boonies. I’m not fully off-grid and independent yet, but for the first time making good forward progress in the right direction. My energy mix is now propane, rooftop solar, a wood furnace, and the grid. I’ve got space on the property to store an abundance of food and water indefinitely. Fresh water stream behind the home. Yea, I know, this makes me barely a Level 1 Noob Prepper, but it's a start. Maybe one day we move more fully off-grid, when we are ready.

I realize a lot of good fortune and privilege allowed this which is why I can’t fault the poor folks in the article.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#312

Post by ridgeguy »

_dain_ wrote: post #286
ridgeguy wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into epigenetic inheritance. This is a mechanism by which environmental factors cause inheritable modulation of genes, which themselves are unchanged. Methylation (attachment of methyl groups) of DNA is one such mechanism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_i... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41437-018-0113-y

Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon. People want it to be true, but there's just no there there. https://razib.substack.com/p/you-cant-take-it-with-you-strai...

Thanks for this link, it's an interesting and informative post. Gives me an additional PoV to consider.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#313

Post by dragonwriter »

_dain_ wrote: post #286
ridgeguy wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into epigenetic inheritance. This is a mechanism by which environmental factors cause inheritable modulation of genes, which themselves are unchanged. Methylation (attachment of methyl groups) of DNA is one such mechanism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_i... https://www.nature.com/articles/s41437-018-0113-y

Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon. People want it to be true, but there's just no there there. https://razib.substack.com/p/you-cant-take-it-with-you-strai...

> Yeah but it has absolutely no explanatory power for sociological phenomenon

That's a nice broad generality, but it doesn’t seem to be true. For instance, on the specific subject of thw thread, epigenetic changes related to chronic stress have demonstrated to have evidence of both (1) some intergenerational transmissibility, and (2) a role in alcoholism.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#314

Post by citizenpaul »

vkou wrote: post #271
citizenpaul wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Good options were available? What if there weren't? What if you were conditioned to not take them? What if you became a child addict? What if literally nobody around you escaped the cycle of addiction and poverty? There's a difference between growing up in an environment where *a fourth-grader in your class is always scrounging for cigarette butts to smoke (that's what my dad grew up with), and your entire community…

>Good options were available?

I'm speaking relatively. Like stand on the corner selling drugs and probably go to jail or get up at 6AM every day to a shitty hard job that pays you hourly. The choices are not great but one is good compared to the other. One has a potential path to something better one day, the other all but guarantees you a cycle of poverty.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#315

Post by shepherdjerred »

jkepler wrote: post #240
katbyte wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone doesn’t have the money to stock pile some food and fuel do you think they can afford to move?

Bus fare, then a homeless shelter until you find work in your new city?

It's that easy folks!

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#316

Post by lostlogin »

robomartin wrote: post #233

[flagged]

There are a fair few comments here suggesting that you are actually helping most and doing the right thing by cutting off all help and support.

Stronger, faster, better etc.

Some comments use themselves as an example (along the lines of ‘I got nothing and wasn’t helped, look at me now’).

It’s seriously grim.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#317

Post by Brian_K_White »

nottorp wrote: post #57
zdragnar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article, the community has stockpiled resources, but their plows and skidsteers are all out of commission. They literally cannot get to the firewood, and every time they clear some snow out more blows in. Some people have been completely isolated in their homes for 8 days. I'd say most people, even in rural areas, don't have a supply that'll last longer than that, except for some hardcore preppers.

How's the winter in that area normally ? Because i've lived my first ~16 years of life in a home heated with firewood (and coal but it's irellevant now) and by the end of september all the fuel needed for 3 months of winter was neatly piled up within easy reach of the house. All you needed was to shovel like 20 meters of path and maybe a wheelbarrow. Why would you need something motorized to get to your firewood? Doe…

Same, upstate NY as a teenager. A couple cords stacked a few yards from the house, enough for the entire year. One problem we would never have is heat, except that if the power went out then some rooms would go cold with no way to run fans to move the air around. But no one would freeze because most of the house could be like a dry sauna.

I think in this case it must be more about a level of poverty so extreme they can't even pull together the years supply ahead of time, even if the community as a whole does have it all ready.

Maybe they don't distribute it except it tiny amounts for some reason? Maybe it gets stolen or sold?

I mean I can only assume that there is some reason they can't do the sensible thing. I couldn't imagine risking relying on daily or weekly deliveries of tiny armloads of wood. I can only assume anyone doing that has no choice or at least thinks they have no choice. I'm sure there are a few individuals who are just, let's say thoughtless, because there are always some, I'm not counting those.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#318

Post by dragonwriter »

rayiner wrote: post #306
pja wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epigenetics is not fringe science - you inherit the methylation patterns from your parents' genes. Two people with the same genes can (in principle) have very different methylation patterns & thus differences in gene expression that result in changes in behaviour. None of this is controversial.

That’s about parent’s environmental exposure affecting gene expression in their children. The notion that this can be passed down over multiple generations, where the parent’s generation wasn’t directly exposed to the environmental conditions, is fringe.

Its not “fringe”, it is demonstrated as a thing which occurs.

Some particular multigenerational effects may be controversial, speculative, or even fringe, but that multigenerational epigenetic effects exist is not at all fringe.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#319

Post by tootrueforhn »

robomartin wrote: post #233

[flagged]

Good take. The "help" especially native americans are getting strongly encourages them to become passive drunks. I consider the current official US treatment as a final middle finger to the once mighty and proud warrior people who are now not only destroyed but humiliated.

For the folks getting uppity for the ugly truth: think about rewarding people for doing nothing and expecting good results. This extremely naive approach of just throwing money at the "problem" has abysmal track record. It'll never work no matter how much you wish. Good intentions are good, but that's it, you should get real and see for yourself how the "help" has created completely dysfunctional communities with no future.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#320

Post by vkou »

mjevans wrote: post #310
vkou wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good options were available? What if there weren't? What if you were conditioned to not take them? What if you became a child addict? What if literally nobody around you escaped the cycle of addiction and poverty? There's a difference between growing up in an environment where *a fourth-grader in your class is always scrounging for cigarette butts to smoke (that's what my dad grew up with), and your entire community…

As a thought experiment. How might an AI trying to follow the intent of Azimov's three laws of robotics help the humans? Initial conclusion: the community is broken and dangerous to humans. Evacuation of at risk life necessary. Distribute and re-integrate across functional settlements.

That conclusion might be adjusted a bit when the AI reads into our history, and observe that our track record for resettling people is not great.
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