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Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

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Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#121

Post by kevinventullo »

marcosdumay wrote: post #113
belval wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Last Jedi was completely disjointed from the previous movie, introduced "fuel" as a plot device that hadn't been even mentioned in the 7 previous movies, gave us the Mary Poppins Princess Leia, had a weird and heavy handed side quest in a casino planet that ultimately had no impact on the plot, killed Snoke without giving the audience some form of closure as to who he was, had BB-8 pilot an AT-ST as an ex-machina…

> Mary Poppins Princess Leia It's funny that the one single time on the entire series when things loose in deep space behave like if they weren't falling somewhere is the one people keep complaining about. Anyway, the last 3 movies has a really great storyline that was completely destroyed by any other aspect you can pick. So the things people choose to complain are quite arbitrary. But this one is funny.

I don’t know how you can claim they had a great storyline when it is very clear the writers were making it up as they went. Say what you will about the prequels, at least there is a clear story arc connecting events from the first with the third.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#122

Post by mypastself »

drewcoo wrote: post #114
mypastself wrote: post #15

I’m geniunely wondering what the audience is supposed to get from all the 2020 references (Covid, Among Us, Zoom, Twitch), and the barrage of celebrity name-drops. I feel like the film was written for some specific Twitter subculture Rian Johnson is a part of, and maybe they find all the references hilarious. The mystery is dull, the dialogue obnoxious, the jokes unfunny, and the camera has that patented ugly digital…

> all the 2020 references (Covid, Among Us, Zoom, Twitch), and the barrage of celebrity name-drops Today's mystery, tomorrow's "beach blanket?" Haven't seen it, but if it's campy enough, it could have staying power.

That’s actually a good point. I suppose the film might have some nostalgia appeal for specific groups of people decades from now. I suspect I’m going to dislike it even more, though.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#123

Post by smcl »

bambax wrote: post #48
ageitgey wrote: post #10

Glass Onion takes the well-worn detective genre and creates some genuinely surprising moments by "cheating" a little with what it shows the audience. This article says it should have played it straight. I think that would have made for a more standard, boring movie. But whatever, that's just opinion. But I think it is silly to call it bad writing. Bad implies that the writer didn't have command of their craft. It is…

> creates some genuinely surprising moments by "cheating" a little I haven't seen the movie yet, but I know this much: you can't cheat . If you do, and you keep some fundamental fact hidden until the last minute, or if you use some kind of magic, or if the murderer was a complete outsider, or if the victim died by accident and nobody's guilty, or, God forbid! if it turns out the victim isn't actually dead, or it was…

I think you should maybe watch the movie before weighing in on whether or not it was "cheating", because it's a bit more subtle than is implied. It sounds like you've already formed your opinion though, which is a shame because it's maybe better to go into a fun movie like this with an open mind and no expectations.

The only way I can see people getting angry at the film is if they go into it with a set of checkboxes they want to tick, or want to solve the crime along with (or ahead of!) the main character. But then at that point they're sort of setting themselves up to be angry.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#125

Post by dekhn »

boppo1 wrote: post #46
paulryanrogers wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

iirc it's extremely authoritarian. "Listen to your betters without question, for they know better than you. You do not need to understand their reasoning." We follow our heroes through an adventure and then our expectations are subverted when we learn their insubordinate adventure was bad and we're bad for rooting for them. Sorta flies in the face of everything people liked about star wars before it.

I mean, the conclusion from the entire series is that the jedi were not a force for good and anakin really did bring about a needed balance in the force.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#126

Post by bambax »

smcl wrote: post #123
bambax wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creates some genuinely surprising moments by "cheating" a little I haven't seen the movie yet, but I know this much: you can't cheat . If you do, and you keep some fundamental fact hidden until the last minute, or if you use some kind of magic, or if the murderer was a complete outsider, or if the victim died by accident and nobody's guilty, or, God forbid! if it turns out the victim isn't actually dead, or it was…

I think you should maybe watch the movie before weighing in on whether or not it was "cheating", because it's a bit more subtle than is implied. It sounds like you've already formed your opinion though, which is a shame because it's maybe better to go into a fun movie like this with an open mind and no expectations. The only way I can see people getting angry at the film is if they go into it with a set of checkboxes…

I was careful to speak in general terms. I am absolutely not expressing an opinion about that movie at all.

I saw and enjoyed the first installment of Knives Out. I don't have a beef with the filmmaker, or the series, or the actors, or the genre.

I'm just saying that detective fiction in general should follow a certain formula and if you stray too far away from it, most of the time, it doesn't turn into a wonderful new recipe but simply fails. In general.

Is it the case for this film in particular? I have no idea!

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#127

Post by HWR_14 »

mypastself wrote: post #102
HWR_14 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did a great job making the contemporary things at least work in the service of the story. COVID allows a shortcut to describing each character. The detective is depressed and bored. Birdie ignores lockdown restrictions and throws massive parties. The scientist is alone in his lab working the whole time. Duke built a home studio and spent his life online, etc. And Miles has a cure/vaccine for COVID but only uses…

As a writer, you can choose to convey character and plot points in many different ways. You don’t have to use things that are considered “hip” at the time of writing. It seems to me that Johnson’s foremost concern was having all those elements in the film, after which he reverse engineered some of the character and plot points you’re talking about.

You don't have to have anything in a movie. The question isn't "why include hip things", the question is "were those hip things just tacked in". They weren't. They served a purpose.

You could replace them with some generic thing, I suppose. But how would that make the movie better?

Meanwhile, if you eliminate them, the story gets worse. Unlike most product placements, which are at best removable background and at worse make the movie worse.

Meanwhile, I imagine Zoom arose naturally to solve the speakerphone but still need to see characters issue. I'm guessing Among Us was added because someone on the set played it and thought it would add something, and Twitch seems like the best real-life example of someplace that you would expect a modern tech mogul to help someone set up a streaming channel. Far from being tacked in, those seem like the best possible solutions to those problems.

And COVID is a fact now. You could release a movie in NYC in 2003 with the Twin Towers still in them, but I don't think people would claim you were being "hip" removing them. They would say you seem out of touch for leaving them in. Even if the story was set in "indefinite past time when they still could have existed"

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#129

Post by bluefirebrand »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #67
belval wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Last Jedi was completely disjointed from the previous movie, introduced "fuel" as a plot device that hadn't been even mentioned in the 7 previous movies, gave us the Mary Poppins Princess Leia, had a weird and heavy handed side quest in a casino planet that ultimately had no impact on the plot, killed Snoke without giving the audience some form of closure as to who he was, had BB-8 pilot an AT-ST as an ex-machina…

It also gave us hyperspace suicide weapons that could destroy any ship, and then declined to explain why this amazing technique was not a tactic we’ve ever seen before or since.

Especially in a universe where droids can easily pilot ships and in fact one half of the Clone War, which was biggest war we know of in the setting was an entire droid army.

The other half was Clones which arguably could have been treated as just as disposable as the droids and also been effective suicide pilots.

Re: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery – Bad Writing

#130

Post by ghaff »

clarkdale wrote: post #11

It would be interesting to watch an edit played in chronological order. A similar response was made to Passengers[1], where if it is NOT made chronologically, the director could have an opportunity to push the theme entirely close to a horror genre. 1. https://youtu.be/Gksxu-yeWcU

Interesting. Passengers also had at least one fairly nonsensical effect scene and some plot points that just didn't make sense. But, yeah, with some fairly modest changes it could IMO have been a notably better film. For me, it's definitely in the category of films that are frustratingly close to having all of the ingredients but doesn't pull them together properly.

The Circle is another one. If ever a film called out for a satirical take on its source material, it was that one.

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