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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#521

Post by simfree »

eric_h wrote: post #205
jtc331 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas car range predictions are also regularly nonsensical. I thought this was well understood.

On my car (2013 mini) the range prediction is actually a more accurate indicator of how much fuel is in the tank than the (separate) fuel tank meter. Not sure why, you’d think they’d use the same input data for both, but it’s true.

By giving you a less precise fuel tank indicator (eg: 8 segment fuel display) versus xxx Miles of Range, your cajoled into trusting the estimator, and the range being so high on gas cars usually allows the estimator to end up closer to accurate thanks to bad and good economy driving and conditions averaging out.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#522

Post by helloworld11 »

The people posting here about all the aspects of EV car charging that are just so easy and convenient and present in their region, or easily applicable with a bit of effort have clearly not traveled to the other 80% of the planet that isn't the highly developed nations.

I know that technology can make surprisingly rapid inroads even into far and poorly developed corners, but this applies most of all to either easily or centrally scalable things. The requirements around EV cars are neither. I can't even imagine how quickly or easily much of this stuff will be in any way practical for hundreds of millions of people living in places where EV charging conveniences and personal garages or etc simply aren't the case at all or possible.

These péople won't give a shit about going EV "for the sake of the planet" until they can do it without being screwed in so many ways.

Some of you truly do live in pleasant little bubbles that simply don't consider the wider human world.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#523

Post by tatersolid »

bdcravens wrote: post #300
dragonwriter wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many people in the US do really not have 220V in the garage? I only have 220V in an indoor laundry room, not the garage. Adding it would only be a small one-time expense.

Probably $500-1000 if you hire an electrician. I did it myself fairly easily (largest cost is the copper wire if it's not a short run; GFCI breaker can also add a little cost if you have to have one - it's code in some states)

Many states or municipalities require conduit for >=110V. Some require licensed electricians to perform all work, along with permits and building inspector approvals. Yes, even for pulling a new circuit from an existing panel.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#524

Post by last_responder »

GalenErso wrote: post #32
brianglick wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't really need a heated garage (at home, anyway) if you had a 220 volt charger. That should be able to overcome any charging challenges in extreme cold, anyway. Relatively easy to get that into your garage. Also - if you arrive at your friend's place in the winter and park overnight, you won't lose a ton overnight if the car's just parked there.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

30 you say? Please list them.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#525

Post by EdwardDiego »

isityouyesitsme wrote: post #293
EdwardDiego wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does Person B live? In a hut in Siberia?

C'mon, you have to purposefully be this obtuse. There's no other way it can happen. Literally any location in the northern US, especially the more rural and more dense urban, and doubly true if you make under 30k per household person and don't already have a circuit in your garage for an electric oven or electric clothes dryer. I suspect the same is true for other locations in the world.

Yep,but I'm assuming that nearly everyone in the Northern US is on the grid. And yep, economic concerns dominate, I get that.

This is where I'd hope a government looking to encourage EVs would step in and help, if they're trying to make things happen before 2035.

E.g., in my area, the regional council has a scheme where home owners can get a very low interest (or even no interest) loan to install good insulation, and you can also get another one to install a heat-pump.

They're run through banks, but backed by the regional (and maybe central?) government.

But, doing something like this will, initially, only subsidise the people who can already afford to buy an electric vehicle.

TL;DR - it used to be that you couldn't refuel your car unless the servants brought more on horses, as the only service stations focused on oats. But we invested in infrastructure.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#526

Post by pastacacioepepe »

twblalock wrote: post #498
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If that was true, the transit situation in SF and NYC would not be as bad as it is — and the crime in NYC in particular has been increasing noticeably, despite that city being one of the wealthiest in the world. And yes, in NYC people of all social classes take the subway. You also betray your true intentions with words like “force”. You want to force an urban transit-based lifestyle on everyone. You don’t want peopl…

> And yes, in NYC people of all social classes take the subway.

In several european countries they do the same happens but public transport Is great. This Is more of a US problem than anything else.

> You also betray your true intentions with words like “force”

I dont betray anything, im openly for it. We are forced to do things all the time, that's literally what any state does.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#527

Post by ashwagary »

lkiernan wrote: post #508
ashwagary wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's fair to say that people hogging chargers even when they're done charging is a problem, there's a public charger on my street that is near 100% utilization. Makes sense to charge a penalty every minute a charger is connected but not drawing power (full battery).

If you put them in convenient places then ICE cars will also park there and not be connected.

ICE cars get parking tickets for taking up those spaces I assume.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#528

Post by neon_electro »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #503
oblio wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is super ridiculous. How do you think this will happen? The buyer of the 2022 Toyota Corolla will just be banned from driving it in 2035? In the US they can't even ban guns, you expect individual driving of owned cars to be banned? :-)))

Not banned. The car shape is probably the most inefficient form factor posssible for an electric vehicle, and economic and market forces will do their thing.

What will change between now and 2035 that will enable "economic and market forces [to] do their thing" that isn't already true today? Can you explain why the "most inefficient form factor possible" is still the norm today?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#529

Post by josephcsible »

linsomniac wrote: post #511
josephcsible wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have that exact setup and haven't had that experience.

Charging in a garage or outside when it's 15F or below?

Outside, with the temperature in the single digits.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#530

Post by devwastaken »

pandaman wrote: post #517
devwastaken wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will not find a 240 in the u.s. outside of specific installations, while in the UK a common plug already is 220 13a.

It depends on what you call "specific installations", in my house I have two 240V 30A outlets for the dryer hookup and for an electric oven and one 240V 40A for the air conditioner.

We are talking of an outlet for a car in winter. It is much more common to have a common outlet outside than to have a 240v outlet. Even if there were a 240, it would be in the nema format that electric vehicles don't accept directly.

This is also the same problem with electric kettles in the U.S. they boil much faster in the u.k. because almost double the power for a common outlet.

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