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Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

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141–150 of 200 posts

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#141

For me the benefits far outweigh the increased wear on the engine. I don't really need my engine to last 400k miles like it can in perfect circumstances. I need fog free windows, be comfortable driving the car without gloves on making the steering slip. To be able to focus on getting around and not shivering. I don't drive these days but back when I did those were all issues I had for my 5am start getting to work. An…

> I need fog free windows Personally I can't drive with ice on my windows. Can't really see outside and I'm pretty confident that's illegal. Like 80%, but I'm not a lawyer.

On most mornings my windows will fog on the side I just cleared before I can get the other side clear. I clean my windows, and then a couple miles down the road they clear up, otherwise it's will be a while before they are clear.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#142
What a bunch of nonsense. He needs to give his degree back asap. It's called an oil pump. when your car is running it pumps oil to the parts that need it. only in really really cold temps where oil can actually freeze is it bad to even start the engine. how long you let it idle doesn't matter. it's literally just sitting there running the oil pump and and circulating oil to where it needs it. If idling an engine in the cold will hurt the engine then so too will driving it because the exact same thing is happening either way.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piston Engine aircraft are probably not the right example to use. They are almost exclusively air/oil-cooled, low-rpm engines, and a majority of them have designs dating back 50+ years.

sure, but the basic physics at the very heart of the issue (use oil to avoid direct contact between metal pieces) is exactly the same. it seems very unlikely that modern refinements have completely reversed the concerns.

Having a water jacket around the cylinder makes it less possible for the cylinder to heat (and change size) unevenly versus an air(/oil)-cooled engine. That same water jacket permits the tolerances to be set to assume a maximum head temp under 300°F (versus 460°F for airplanes). That means the steel rings don’t have to deal with as much dissimilar expansion as the aluminum heads and pistons. This allows engineers to choose tolerances accordingly. It’s not so much modern metallurgy or electronic controls, but a factor of having a lower temperature range.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#144

I don't doubt that the expert consulted for this article knows way more about gasoline engines than I do, but the article itself contains some flat-out falsehoods. In particular the line "But don't confuse warm air coming from your car's radiator with a warm engine." is just wrong. The engine temperature sensor actually senses the engine coolant temperature, and if your dash is blowing warm air, then the coolant is w…

Many new cars have electric heaters for the air venting into the cabin. In that case their statement about confusing warm air with a warm engine would be true.

Especially small diesels which take too long to warm up for passenger comfort.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#145
A two minute warm up is good for cars in winter, even with synthetic oil. Slow-ish speeds for a couple of miles will warm up the engine nicely. Keep in mind, when you start you vehicle on a cold morning, it high idles for a few minutes. This is by design.

Great and interesting replies as usual. For my two cents, don't trust the dealer where you bought your car. My wife and I bought a new Ram truck in 2021, I asked the salesmen what are the engine break-in best practices. He said he didn't know, no surprise there, so he called the service manager. The manager told him to tell me there is NO break-in required for these new "crate engines" these days!

I was shocked, so after I returned home I read the manual. It had concise instructions for breaking in both the engine and the transmission, which I was careful to do. There is plenty of stories on the web about the engine in my truck having upper engine problems, perhaps they believed the dealership.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#146
The only reason why I let my car idle is because the windows are covered in frost outside and I don't want to daname them by scratching the ice off every day for 3-4 months every year. Better to heat the windows and let the ice melt from heat.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#147

I don't doubt that the expert consulted for this article knows way more about gasoline engines than I do, but the article itself contains some flat-out falsehoods. In particular the line "But don't confuse warm air coming from your car's radiator with a warm engine." is just wrong. The engine temperature sensor actually senses the engine coolant temperature, and if your dash is blowing warm air, then the coolant is w…

ICEs will also use recycled exhaust to warm intake air. There's a separate sensor for intake air temp and I think a separate oxygen sensor that should inform the fuel mix.

At least in my performance car, there are separate gauges for engine oil, transmission fluid, coolant and air intake temperatures. Those are all exposed to me in dash.

I think traditionally, the only temperature exposed to the driver is the coolant temperature as that's usually the only one that really causes problems with overheating.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#148

Don't listen to this nonsense as it's absolute baloney. I would ask the experts that design engines and oil rather than a one-off op-ed piece from a news source with a questionable reputation, a history of sensationalism, and zero applicable scientific qualifications. The primary reason you warm up your engine is because oil is more viscous at cold temperatures. All engine oils have cold flow characteristics and modi…

My experience is that the viscosity modifiers are more warm-thickening than cold-thinning modifiers. It seems to behave like a low-viscosity base oil and additives to reduce thinning with temperature. (Not a petro /materials engineer.)

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#149
Once upon a time, before fuel injection and effective manifold heat, cars were not very drivable when cold.

The gasoline would not vaporize well in the cold carburetor so the “choke” had to be set to enrich the mixture.

When the vaporized fuel interfaces with cold metal in the intake manifold and intake passages in the head(s), the fuel condenses out of suspension, creating a very lean mixture, despite the choke being set. Combine this with dropping revs from leaving a stop in a manual transmission car, and stalls were frequent.

The solution was to allow the engine to “warm up”.

I have an old Toyota fj40 that reminds me of the before times when it’s cold.

The author of the article got many things wrong.

Washing the cylinders is a thing, but the cylinder has just had a combustion event in it that runs at 2600°F or higher. There is very little oil on the cylinder walls during the “power stroke” in a 4-cycle engine. The walls are reoiled on the exhaust, intake and compression strokes.

A study by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) found that the temperature of the combustion chamber walls (the top section of the cylinder wall), specifically, ranges from 265° F under limited throttle to 475° F with the throttle wide open.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/93....

The flashpoint for motor oils is 300-475° F, which is why you can maintain a thin film in the cylinder walls.

Excessive idling will foul spark plugs and valve seats.

Re: Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)

#150

I'm sure the cited expert really is an expert, but this article fails miserably at conveying any cohesive understanding from them to you. It's full of conclusions that don't follow from their leading statements. My understanding about warming up an engine before putting load on it had nothing to do with fuel or power steering fluid, it was about thermal expansion of all the machined parts that suffer wear if they are…

Oil pressure seems to be left out of the conversation - oil-starved journal bearings can be bad news if loaded immediately. SOP in piston-engine aircraft is to get the oil temperature and pressure "in the green" before doing run-ups. There's a pretty good description here: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/779/journal-bearin...

Unlikely to be starved, (unless it’s really cold and then you barely have any oil), but bearings can be washed out by high oil pressure, which is a consideration with cold oil.
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