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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#401

Post by fbdab103 »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #282
rtkwe wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally no. Line drying has a connotation of poverty in the US and many cities have ordinances like this that make it tough to do. Also houses being generally larger and detached in the US we have an easier time installing them compared to row houses in Europe. They're also just built more recently so they have accommodations for them built in already. "No person shall place or allow to remain exposed to the elemen…

Oh wow. I did wonder why dryers were so frequently used in the US. Don't you have to worry about it shrinking clothing though?

A bigger concern is additional wear and tear. Dryers seem to be harsh on clothing and will reduce the lifespan vs just hanging.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#402

Post by bdlowery »

isityouyesitsme wrote: post #124
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

OK, 10 years behind EV. It makes sense that it is where it is. Please point out anywhere where anyone says the accomplishments are not remarkable on their own, if you are not comparing them to the thing with 100 years infra behind it. Now compare that to the seemingly endless number of evangelists who think that 10 years from now is a good time to impose a mandate to kill all new ICE vehicle manufacturing, in spite o…

You will still be able to buy and drive ICE cars. What’s the problem?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#403

Post by adrianN »

aliswe wrote: post #373
adrianN wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should kill all EV manufacturing five years ago. Spend the effort instead on building charging infrastructure, bike lanes, and public transport. Used cars are good for another fifteen years or so to cover edge cases where EV adoption is slower, giving us ample time to figure out solutions that don't drive mass extinction.

It's not a communist state

Where did I ask for putting the means of production into the hands of the workers?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#404

Post by tomjakubowski »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #389
fwungy wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States are mandating no ICE sales by 2035. That is why people are becoming anti-EV. No one would care about EV policy if it wasnt being forced on an insane schedule.

No new car sales, and PHEVs are included which should solve edge cases. That's very different than all cars. Also, most of CA doesn't get cold enough that any of this discussion is relevant.

PHEVs really seem like the best of both worlds. What's the downside?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#405

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

throwaway290 wrote: post #195
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #77

Living in a region were you need to warm up car for 5 minutes to stop it being an unwelcoming block of ice, and experiencing frequent failures to get the starter running due to discharged battery due to cold, I always wondered how much cold affects battery performance and his much the heating costs in miles. Tesla's figures look unbelievably good, and I think they don't account for heating. In -20° you'd need at leas…

Norway proves EV are OK in the cold. They overtook ICEs already.

Norway is a particularly bad example here because, despite its northern location, the climate is very mild, with the average winter temperature of just -6°C, while we here regularly see temperatures below -20°C and up to (or down to?) -35°C.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#406

Post by dotancohen »

pmontra wrote: post #225
cwalv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

Not everybody has a garage. Cities are full of parked cars in front of residential buildings. It did park my car in a street when I was living in a city. By 2035 those streets must be refitted with chargers, one per parking slot and somehow replace the energy distributed as gasoline and diesel with electrical energy. If that doesn't happen people will have to leave their car at a charging station for far more time th…

Does the street already have street lights? If so, then presumably there already is an electrical distribution network running alongside the street. If it was designed with sodium vapor lamps in mind, but has been upgraded to LEDs, then EV charging infrastructure is withing its capabilities.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#407

Post by dotancohen »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #323
josephcsible wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do those people park their cars now? Wherever that is, put a charger on a post next to the spot.

And where does the electricity come for those chargers? Huge swaths of the USA are experiencing rolling blackouts right now because there isn't enough electrical capacity.

Rolling blackouts are being experienced because the delta between high day usage and low night usage is too great to invest in upgraded peak-capable infrastructure. Charging vehicles at night will actually _improve_ the situation.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#408

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

gocartStatue wrote: post #83
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #77

Living in a region were you need to warm up car for 5 minutes to stop it being an unwelcoming block of ice, and experiencing frequent failures to get the starter running due to discharged battery due to cold, I always wondered how much cold affects battery performance and his much the heating costs in miles. Tesla's figures look unbelievably good, and I think they don't account for heating. In -20° you'd need at leas…

Luckily the engines still generate plenty of heat and EVs use modern heat pumps.

Tesla claims to have 90..94% motor efficiency. With model Y using 13kW per hour, even if you count all 6-10% of this as heat, and manage to capture it, it'll still be hardly enough to keep the car at a comfortable temperature without additional heating.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#409

Post by michpoch »

Renevith wrote: post #358
jhoechtl wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you wouldn't make it home and have a night outside? Two times 75km and down to 12% charge is not inspiring confidence in such situations!

When I left for the second drive, the car's navigation app estimated I'd have 13% left when I arrived, and the estimates have been impressively good so I just went for it. But I also was in a good sized metro area with a couple Tesla superchargers not far off my route, so my backup plan was to stop at one for 15 minutes if it ever looked like I might not make it.

What would have happened if there is a road closure and you need to drive extra 20kms? Or a traffic jam that would make you wait one hour?

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#410

Post by alliao »

GalenErso wrote: post #32
brianglick wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't really need a heated garage (at home, anyway) if you had a 220 volt charger. That should be able to overcome any charging challenges in extreme cold, anyway. Relatively easy to get that into your garage. Also - if you arrive at your friend's place in the winter and park overnight, you won't lose a ton overnight if the car's just parked there.

Meanwhile, with an ICE car, you don't need to worry about having a garage, nevermind a heated one; the right charger, warming a pack, losing fuel overnight, or taking three hours to fully charge. I can pull up to any gas station and fill my tank in 2 minutes. And my gas isn't magically evaporating if it's a little chilly. The 30 different requirements for EVs to work in cold weather are too complex and prohibitively…

ICE cars were built without thinking about efficiency in a way, there were plenty of heat to go around due to the nature of combustion. The EV seem fragile but it is because it's so efficient so anything that affects the efficiency becomes quite noticeable... nothing wrong with being a bit more efficient everywhere we can.
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