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The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

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Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#391

Post by RajT88 »

rconti wrote: post #354
devb wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave What about the millions of people who live in apartments and rowhouses?

Just got back from the UK. The neighborhood I was in had charge sockets on every 3rd or 4th parking post. You wouldn't even know they were there if not for the tiny little LED.

In some ways the UK is a view into the future of the US.

But this is not it.

Wealthy neighborhoods in the US are going to get these on the streets eventually. Places where poor folks live don't have the ROI needed to justify it. Wealthier folks tend to be older and have more time on their hands to do things like go complain at city council meetings.

You're going to get these chargers in the richest neighborhoods first (of course), and eventually to the decent middle class neighborhoods. The poorer areas where blue collar workers live (apartment complexes) will get it approximately never - the city won't invest in those areas because fuck them, and the apartment complexes won't invest in them, because fuck them.

https://youtu.be/MqkT4B-9MGk

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#392

Post by bennyelv »

rconti wrote: post #354
devb wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave What about the millions of people who live in apartments and rowhouses?

Just got back from the UK. The neighborhood I was in had charge sockets on every 3rd or 4th parking post. You wouldn't even know they were there if not for the tiny little LED.

I can confirm as someone who lives in the uk, that is not normal.

There are a significant proportion of residential developments where it wouldn’t even be possible to install such infrastructure due to the legal framework around how the properties are owned and maintained.

Legislative changes are needed here to make this happen, but alas our government has had its mind on “other things” for quite a few years now and doesn’t seem to be doing anything about it.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#393

Post by jeffrallen »

Phlarp wrote: post #99
d_watt wrote: post #19

Anecdotally last winter, had a Model Y up in maine for a trip home. I arrived at a backwoods house with ~60 miles left. It was around 10 farenheit the next day when I hooked up a 110 volt line to the car. Over the next 30 minutes the mileage dropped to 55 as it took more energy to heat the battery than the line could deliver. I unhooked it and planned to drive 20 miles to the nearest charger, but after 1 mile of trav…

If it's cold enough a Tesla plugged into 120v/20a charging circuit will actually lose voltage over time. It's consuming over 2000 watts just to keep the battery at an acceptable temp for the chemistry to function. The weight of the battery pack is great for traction in warm / dry conditions, but when driving on ice that weight is just momentum sending you sliding into snow banks. After a bumper or body panel gets rip…

The entire country of Norway would like to have a word with you, my friend. (And about 10% of Switzerland as well.)

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#394

Post by bennyelv »

bdcravens wrote: post #306
isityouyesitsme wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, 10 years behind EV. It makes sense that it is where it is. Please point out anywhere where anyone says the accomplishments are not remarkable on their own, if you are not comparing them to the thing with 100 years infra behind it. Now compare that to the seemingly endless number of evangelists who think that 10 years from now is a good time to impose a mandate to kill all new ICE vehicle manufacturing, in spite o…

[flagged]

I’m not sure that was said by anyone in 2009, there was already a healthy selection of early touch screen smartphones available.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#395

Post by pastage »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #234
pastage wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not really contradicting you here. Just want clarification from GP. My reaction was Huh? As well. With N=15 years of gps data and 40-70 of those days per year below zero very few below -10°C. I can say that I ride slower on cold days on avarage. I am not fit and do not track that at all. I can barely keep my avarage above 25km/h in city traffic for 15km, very few conflict points maybe twenty but not comparable t…

More wind chill? More weight by thicker clothing?

I ride with heavy loads, 10+ kilos is common, no stats on that though. For my speed it does not matter much with 2 kg clothes.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#396

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

cwalv wrote: post #116
jws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken by someone who's never had their diesel fuel begin gelling in the fuel line at night on a frigid, remote highway and trying to figure out if you can make it to somewhere with heat before you stop completely. Then finding out they only have gasoline, so you try to figure out how much gas you can add to the diesel tank to keep it from gelling but still run adequately to move you along. Sometimes we forget that w…

> But you know what I don't do? Freeze my ass off standing in a gas station in subzero temperatures and howling winds! Not missing that at all. Right! And I suspect by 2035, not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave in your kitchen in the mid 90's.

By 2035 people won't be driving car-shaped objects, not unless they're professional taxi drivers.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#397

Post by bennyelv »

scott_siskind wrote: post #122
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold air is denser. Pushing it out of the way saps more energy and drops the effective work done. You're oblivious to it because a motor vehicle has so much available power on tap. It is very noticeable on a bicycle at high speeds. Conversely. Sailboats get more efficient in cold temperatures because more energy is imparted on the sail.

> It is very noticeable on a bicycle at high speeds Huh? I've been cycling for 15 years, many of those years doing 15k km a year, all year round. Mountain biking on mountains at -15C, down to urban cycling in 38-40C scorching summer heat. I've never noticed speed, effort, stamina changing with temperature as you suggest. And I've done lots of road cycling at constant 35-40km/h, descents of up to 70+km/h.

Interesting! I’m also a long time high volume cyclist, and I see a clear effect of slower rides in winter. I’m talking about around specific routes and training sessions where the point is to go as fast as possible. With the same power I seem to go more slowly when it’s cold.

Obviously there could be many reasons for this: less aerodynamic clothing, more cautious cornering etc etc, but the effect is very noticeable to me.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#398

Post by defrost »

xyzelement wrote: post #326
defrost wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Increasing vehicle mileage is an example of this - mileage has doubled and emissions per vehicles halved since 1975. A fantastic point! Unfortuneately undercut by absolute truth (rather than per vehicle comparisons) that * the number of vehicles (both in the US and globally) has substantially increased in number since the 1970s, * many of the older vehicles with the poor performance are still active on roads somewh…

Careful because inevitably someone would classify you as "high consumption" and try to halve you.

Unlikely - I literally grew up cheek by jowl with traditional hunter gathers in the Kimberleys, on a personal level my consumption is well below the Australian mean, which itself is well below the central north american norm.

I'm comfortable getting by for months on end sans most things - global field geophysics was an extended jolly.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#399

Post by dazc »

rconti wrote: post #354
devb wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not having a 220v outlet in the garage will be like not having a microwave What about the millions of people who live in apartments and rowhouses?

Just got back from the UK. The neighborhood I was in had charge sockets on every 3rd or 4th parking post. You wouldn't even know they were there if not for the tiny little LED.

This isn't representative of the UK as a whole though and, likely, never will be. Providing charging points for middle-class homeowners at the expense of basic infrastructure and countless other spending 'priorities' would be considered political suicide in most high-density locations outside of London.

Re: The cold hard truth about electric vehicles in winter

#400

Post by gambiting »

avar wrote: post #196
Scoundreller wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when it comes to cars, often the US base model has a larger engine than the EU base model. No idea why: speed limits are often higher in EU and often with more hills.

It's because in addition to fuel being cheaper in the US, many EU countries tax you on engine displacement, CO2 emissions, fuel economy etc.

Well yes, but watching American car reviews(as European) leaves me puzzled - reviewers often describing 3.0L V6, 200bhp engine as small and low power, and discussing if it's not dangerous to merge on the highway with it, while over here you get a 1.0L 110bhp engine in a large family SUV and it isn't even brought up as an issue. In my last car the base option was 90bhp, and the "high performance" model was 160bhp. I guess in US that would be described as a horse cart. That's despite the fact that even the 90bhp model had no issue keeping up with 80mph traffic.
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