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California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
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Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other companies have cars one public streets without drivers. Calling what current Tesla’s do Full Sell Driving is so misleading it’s probably just fraud.
Is there any consumer car that is anywhere close? My understanding is that no other car has things like automatic lan change and route following. Let alone stopping at stop signs / red lights etc.
That is not full self driving
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#33Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…
The metric to judge assisted driving technologies is primarily safety. Driving is not safe and I suspect will appear insane to a future generation. Which generation and how soon is another question. However, what the US needs to massive investments in rail, which address both safety and traffic.
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#34FSD = fraudulent sales and disappointment
I can’t believe Tesla has gotten away with selling a feature that doesn’t exist, and will never be delivered, on so many cars for so long. Tesla began selling “full self-driving” in October, 2016 and a month later marketed it with (now known to be heavily controlled) video of a car driving itself for two minutes. Owners of those initial cars have probably paid them off by now and still don’t have a feature they were sold.
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#35Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#36https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billHistoryClient.x... Wow introduced end of feb this year and passed by end of this year. Looking from outside, I am Amazed by the speed of American democracy .
California is a bit of an outlier in that regard.
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#37Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…
You’re getting downvoted but you’re not necessarily wrong. I love the idea of self driving vehicles and I’m excited about them, but I harbor no illusions about them fixing traffic. The key question I would ask to self driving proponents is this - if you waved your magic wand and suddenly changed every car on the road to self driving…how would that impact traffic? At the very least traffic wouldn’t decrease . You coul…
Traffic would get somewhat worse.
People would be willing to commute somewhat farther because they could spend that time reading the paper or working instead of driving the car.
Errands that used to be annoying enough to delay get more frequent as well for the same reason.
If we get to a car share model, where you subscribe and pay per mile, that might offset some car use.
Really we need all of the above - self-driving, less personal car ownership, and other transit options.
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other companies have cars one public streets without drivers. Calling what current Tesla’s do Full Sell Driving is so misleading it’s probably just fraud.
Is there any consumer car that is anywhere close? My understanding is that no other car has things like automatic lan change and route following. Let alone stopping at stop signs / red lights etc.
Yeah, nothing else does that stuff. Which is I think the big disconnect in this discourse. People who want to take the anti- side can lean on "It's not complete!" as an argument, because it isn't. But in terms of capability, it's way ahead of the competition[1] And some of us want this feature and want to pay for it! And it works!
So... I'm actually fine with renaming it. People shouting "fraud" on the internet want somehow for a different name to magically make the product bad. But the product is great.
[1] Yes, including Waymo and Cruise, who work only on carefully calibrated geofenced areas. My Tesla will take the highway when it needs to and honor a five-way stop sign. Waymo won't even make an unprotected left turn.
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#39How much could the recent Musk meltdown be related to FSD just not arriving? It seems like we have reached a point after many years of FSD being “next year” when it’s becoming clear that it’s further away than anyone thought. I’ve thought the difficulty was being vastly underestimated for a while. A reusable Lunar and Mars shuttle system is probably a lot easier than actual FSD.
FWIW, as far as "will the car drive itself?", FSD is already here. Call a friend and get a ride. The beta lets people in relatively rapidly now, and there are hundreds of thousands of enabled cars on the roads. It's pretty amazing. Now, it's absolutely true that it's not at a 100% supervision-free level. It's still timid, it has trouble with lane selection in some areas and misses turns, etc... But for months and mon…
If you don’t have a friend, I thought this MKBHD video from a few days ago was a fair appraisal of the current state of FSD:
Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD
#40Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…
Interesting point about induced demand.
Though it can be easily fixed, particularly given the lack of user control over cars with FSD: For self driving cars all public roads are toll roads.