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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

forbes.com

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#471

Post by phpisthebest »

_djo_ wrote: post #421
bombolo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing bad happened to snowden after all right?

Snowden wasn't a journalist, he was a contractor with a security clearance who leaked classified information to others and didn't go through any legally recognised whistleblowing channels. He broke the law and the conditions of his clearance. Now you could argue that he still did a good thing, and perhaps that would have been taken into account by the jury in what would have been a proper trial in a civilian court ha…

Well this brings up another failure or short coming of our implementation of "democracy". How can the voting public hold the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc accountable as people here seems to claim we do by voting if we are not allowed to know what they are doing, and if anyone that is given access to info about what they are doing releases that we put them in a cage or drive them out the country.

"National Security" is often used to cover up government abuse, the public only knows of a few rare instances of this abuse and based on those I can pretty much assume the abuses are FAR FAR more extensive than has been reveled to the public and there is great incentive by government to classify everything to ensure there is never any accountability. Just look at the actions around these JFK files that multiple administrations have tried to declassify, or the Torture report that clearly the CIA violated the law even during the investigation

You must have immense trust, not backed by any rational data to support that trust, to proclaim Snowden an enemy of the people simply because he violated state secrets laws, laws that IMO should be unconstitutional in the first place, and are completely antithetical to a functional democracy.

If the government can keep secrets from the voters, then the voters can not hold them accountable, it is as simple as that

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#472

Post by concordDance »

mannerheim wrote: post #435
concordDance wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude leads to generals sabotaging the Christmas Truce and way more deaths than necessary. Very very few wars are against invaders who want to kill everybody.

What's the threshold on how many people invaders will kill, deport, and subject to second-class citizenship before that attitude becomes appropriate?

Depends how bad the second classness is. Probably anything more than 1% death is worth fighting.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#473

Post by trasz3 »

signatoremo wrote: post #449
wikfwikf wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Chinese company operates in the US, obeys local laws while doing the same sketchy things that home-grown companies do all the time and it's a 'national security issue'. US companies operating in the EU are expected to follow local laws and ... this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine, like it always does, and Europeans are supposed to be grateful?

Because TikTok is a Chinese company? There is precedence of American companies not allowed to operate in China. Why pretend to be surprise? > this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine So narrow that Ukraine president decided to come visit to rally support?

>There is precedence of American companies not allowed to operate in China.

Not true. They can operate, they just need to obey the law. Same way other companies need to obey American laws to operate in US, eg enforcing copyright or providing Lawful Interception mechanisms.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#474

Post by trasz3 »

malshe wrote: post #464
trasz3 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> US is a partial democracy, just like China China is a partial democracy? What bs!

Let me guess, it never occurred to you to ask what Chinese say about this. You just trust your own propaganda instead.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#475

Post by b800h »

1attice wrote: post #462
cormacrelf wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked TikTok has a huge office in London. They’re not invulnerable to penalties.

No, but UK enforcement is now quite vulnerable to, say, an HQ move to Paris. Wouldn't want those jobs to go missing during a Brexit war deepfreeze winter. A pity there wasn't some way of harmonizing laws and enforcement with other nearby nation-states. Some sort of "Union". Thinking aloud

Agree, we should extend this as far as possible and harmonise everything globally via the UN. Right?

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#476

Post by BlueTemplar »

signatoremo wrote: post #449
wikfwikf wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Chinese company operates in the US, obeys local laws while doing the same sketchy things that home-grown companies do all the time and it's a 'national security issue'. US companies operating in the EU are expected to follow local laws and ... this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine, like it always does, and Europeans are supposed to be grateful?

Because TikTok is a Chinese company? There is precedence of American companies not allowed to operate in China. Why pretend to be surprise? > this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine So narrow that Ukraine president decided to come visit to rally support?

Last I checked, it's not so much that Google wasn't allowed to operate, it's that they didn't want to have to follow the rules (and for good reason) ?

Apple (at least) seems to have managed to strike some kind of a deal ?

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#477

Post by robswc »

snehk wrote: post #420
robswc wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply have to follow the same rules Chinese companies have to I don’t think it’s simple at all. That might be how it works on paper but I’ll ask you this. Do you think a US or European equivalent would ever be allowed to gain a comparable market share? Or would they find many convenient barriers while a Chinese clone, backed by the government, was being built? I just don’t see a world where Chinese and US companie…

I think you're talking about two different things here. I never argued that they are on the same footing. That's true for every country on this planet. My main point here was that Facebook and Google are allowed to operate in China if they follow the law of the land. I've already said that not operating there is arguably admirable but the point is that they're definitely allowed to operate there if they follow the la…

>I never argued that they are on the same footing

Sure. Though, the footing is so unequal that it effectively prevents US companies from gaining a foothold. Maybe that is a little broad but it certainly leans towards the rule vs the exception.

>And the laws for them are no different than they are for Chinese companies.

Before or after they start operating? How difficult is that compared to entering the US or European market?

>Apple and Microsoft are doing absolutely fine in China. Apple's mobile market share there is bigger than it is in Europe. So yes, they already _are_ allowed to gain a comparable market share.

The Government of China is literally trying to stop Apple and Microsoft's dominance as we speak.

https://www.kylinos.cn/

>As for regular social media; LinkedIn is also doing just fine and always has.

LinkedIn is doing fine? They shut down LinkedIn literally last year man, lol.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/14/technology/linkedin-china...

They're making some BS "CCP compliant" version that _only_ allows you to do job searching but it is certainly not LinkedIn as we know it.

Sure. On paper, once you jump through the regulatory hoops you're allowed to exist there... but the difference between the environments (and the bias foreign companies endure) is such that I stand by my original comment.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#478

Post by ajsnigrutin »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #179
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telcos can still track their customers, and who knows which three-letter agencies can get all that data. The only issue now is (it seems), that it's the chinese doing it and not facebook/google or local telcos.

> The only issue now is (it seems), that it's the chinese doing it and not facebook/google or local telcos. No. That is also an issue, few who are informed despute the need to address those as well. There can be more than one problem in need of solving at a time.

Well sure, but somehow noone was bothered by the local three-letter agencies getting the data from the telcos (and google, facebook, etc.), until the chinese did the same with their app.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#479

Post by lloydatkinson »

simmerup wrote: post #32
lloydatkinson wrote: post #31

Where are the people now who were saying in previous threads things like "tick tock is safe, there is no way they abuse their users, invade privacy, or log devices on the users local wifi"?

They're busy shifting the goal posts

Sounds about right, including downvoting my comment.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#480

Post by DoctorOetker »

vanadium1st wrote: post #184

I was really pro open internet. I remember the old internet and feel nostalgia about it that probably won't ever completely fade. I am Ukrainian, and when some years ago my government banned the most popular social network at our country - Russian-made VK, I felt strange about it. I kind of understood some of the security concerns, but didn't feel like they were enough to turn off my open internet fantasies and free-…

It's very rare to read such honesty on the internet.

While the internet has been in existence for a while, it is actually still quite young in the sense of affordable democratization of access to the internet. This does raise a lot of questions regarding long term effects of the internet.

While the current threat actors were relatively predictable, I wonder how in the long run nations can protect themselves from threat actors which are currently still seen as allies? On long timescales allies can become threats and threat actors can become new allies. Does this mean the concept of international companies and services will fragment? Currently Europe is trying to organize more domestic manufacture of semiconductors. Will the future see a race of nation states to be as self-reliant as possible? On the level of individual humans the prepper who wants to make his own shoes / computer / ... is ridiculed, while blocks / nation states / ... are taking steps in such directions...

Again, I thank you for your honesty, most people would just be embarassed for their past activity on foreign platforms, and not highlight it to others.

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