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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. No, not everyone in China is a state bot. However, every company has to keep at least a few party members on their board and obey state controls constantly.

> All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. Couldn't the same be said of companies here in the US? We know the government is collecting data from US corporations. Should other countries be blocking Google, Facebook and Microsoft?

The same could not be set of companies in the United States, and such controls would very quickly or lawsuits and all sorts of backlash.

Companies do cooperate with the government, but for the most part that cooperation is either voluntary, or clearly defined by law which mandates cooperation.

There is still some reason for concern, but there is much less reason for concern.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#442
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was surprising to me seeing the news with Ukrainian soldiers using TikTok out in the field.

It's interesting in and of itself that ByteDance allows this. Perhaps PLA believes that bleeding Russia dry via America expending all of her reserve weaponry means that that American combat power can't be used in the Pacific. If you squint hard enough, it might actually be in CCP's interest for Russia to extend itself in Ukraine because it means that the Americans spend infinity dollars and burn through stocks of key…

> Perhaps PLA believes that bleeding Russia dry via America expending all of her reserve weaponry means that that American combat power can't be used in the Pacific.

If this is their plan then this is a very poor plan. Russia is a land war, and most of the equipment we're giving to you crane is not the sort of equipment that we would ever use in a war anymore.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Democracy" is more or less an delusion those in power perpetuate to ensure the cattle think they have a choice Like him or not, Trump was very much not the preference of those in power, and very much was the preference of many people in America. That shows the people do have power.

An aberition in the system is not a rule. Look what happened after the person that was supposed to win lost. That will never happen again the system will see to that

> An aberition in the system is not a rule

An aberration shows your rule is not actually a rule. Trump is also not the only time this happened. FDR also bucked the trend.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A book i can highly recommend is "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by Professor Shoshana Zuboff from the Harvard Business School. TLDR "commercial purposes" include selling data in bulk to government agencies, which could not seize such data without a warrant and judicial oversight, thus allowing them to circumvent the very protection mechanisms that are in place to prevent extrajudical harassment in favor of crea…

> book i can highly recommend is "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by Professor Shoshana Zuboff from the Harvard Business School Great book. The 4th Amendment workarounds she describes should absolutely be outlawed. But I want to cite this very civil discourse we're having about this problem, and the paths to remedy it, in contrast to anything in China.

Surveillance Capitalism is not only about the 4th Amendment, (even if i did focus that aspect in my comment) shifting power centers may make corporations a bigger threat for civil rights than government agencies, as behavioral futures markets and mass manipulation undermine the very ideals of a liberal democratic republic and the core concept of how our society is governed. I can't compress Zuboffs book into a few sentences. Glad you know about it.

I like to joke that in the EU personal data belongs to the person it is about, in china all data belongs to the government, and in the USA data belongs to the corporations that gather it. If i could choose the global system for human society, i would not choose surveillance communism, but i would also not choose surveillance capitalism. I want no state of mass surveillance, no matter if it is operated by the government or by corporations, it is a terrible idea either way.

We disagree on whether surveillance by american corporations is "a different league" or "just as bad" as surveillance by chinese corporations. Let's first agree the societal systems are obviously different and that free speech and the ability to reform are parts where these systems differ. But I do not consider surveillance capitalism less worse due to the ability of democracy to reform democratically, because surveillance capitalism undermines that very ability. I do however agree that it is good we can have this discourse without worrying about our social score. Please like and subscribe ;-)

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but to my eye, China has a direct interest in Russia being successful in its invasion of Ukraine : the invasion of Taiwan. China is and has been - as Russia did, prior to its invasion - massively expanding its armed forces. To my eye, there is absolutely no defensive need for this - India is not about in invade, for example. There is only one use for all this weaponry; Taiwan. I swim a lot, and I meet…

Don't see how Russia succeeding in a winning settlement of an artillery war on its land borders would greatly change China's chances of success using their much bigger army to wholly capture an island which the US might honour its commitment to directly intervene to defend. Russia having a horrible time of it is a reminder to China that military annexation of Taiwan wouldn't be easy, but the basic problems with tryin…

Russia's success in taking Ukraine, and eventually big parts of the EU, was somewhat hinged on the idea that nato, and to a lesser extent the EU as a whole, could be broken up by doing things like threatening Germany with a cutoff of natural gas.

This sort of breaking up of NATO cohesion would allow China and Russia to act more freely in the world without a unified opposition.

What China and Russia were betting on was that the EU would be weak in the face of tension, and realistically that was a pretty good bet because the EU looked pretty.

They attacked, that didn't turn out to be true, and all their best laid plans are going to shit before their eyes as the EU unifies in the United States pros like 10% of our military capacity at Ukraine and manages to make a tiny country of like 25 million people compete effectively with the country of 150 million that is like three times the size.

China still wants Russia to be a strong unified country, because they want a Russia opposed to the west so that the west is now divided between two fronts.

But aside from that, every single one of their plans has gone about as long as it possibly could have.

Russia was not able to take Ukraine but in a few days

The west did not fall apart

United States has gotten stronger economically.

Economic sanctions have been incredibly effective, without firing a single shot.

It has become clear that given a choice between security and economic progress, countries choose security. China was betting on the ability for their large experts and import market to prevent countries from standing against them.

People were claiming this was going to be the decade of authoritarians against waning democracies, but all of a sudden it looks like this is going to be the decade of strong democracies against waning authoritarians.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re not in the world of what ifs and ethical debates. We are in a world where our strategic enemy has a foothold on our digital lives and will likely use it against us. This is evidence. We should treat our enemies as enemies. China doesn’t consider itself to be in a friendly competition for dominance. Neither should we.

Remind me. Why should the rest of the world put up with Google and Facebook? Free trade for me but not for thee? This hypocrisy is maddening. Companies need to comply with PI laws. Then there is no need to find excuses to keep approved spyware companies operating depending on where the stockholders live.

> Why should the rest of the world put up with Google and Facebook? Free trade for me but not for thee? This hypocrisy is maddening.

It doesn't have to, and other countries have imposed restrictions and even outright bans on US tech firms. The EU being the prime example.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US I’m not really afraid of China. There are some people who should be, but I’m not. I’m annoyed at American companies who bow to their wishes, but I’m also annoyed at American companies who censor to advertisers so nobody says “fuck” on YouTube and my level of annoyance is about the same. Some other places would do good to ban tiktok and people concerned about national secrets and the like sure should, but I’…

If you work for a company that could be punished by China, you should fear them. They can have you fired if your say the wrong thing.

If you work for a company that could be punished by China you should furiously work to get your company out of China so that they can't do this.

Keep your comments in the boardroom, but whatever influence you have, you use.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#448
post #412

We really really need to shut this down as a national security issue. If they took it off Apple and Google Play stores it would reduce usage immediately by at least 80-90% along with having apple/android send out blocks like they can for malware (which it is). It's hard to believe Biden didn't continue Trump's attempt to shut it down.

We should also shut down all the US-based media in Europe then, for the exact same reason.

Who is we? Are you European?

Twitter, FB and Google have been banned in China, so banning US companies isn’t a new concept. Whether Europe join that is up to European countries. They haven’t shared your opinions so far. Maybe they value the relationship with the US? Especially after seeing Russia’s “special operation” in Ukraine

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't noticed, Europe has passed laws making it nearly impossible for American (and only American) tech companies to operate there. I would probably be less inclined to want TikTok banned if China were in the midst of saving my entire continent from an unhinged, marauding neighbor.

A Chinese company operates in the US, obeys local laws while doing the same sketchy things that home-grown companies do all the time and it's a 'national security issue'. US companies operating in the EU are expected to follow local laws and ... this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine, like it always does, and Europeans are supposed to be grateful?

Because TikTok is a Chinese company? There is precedence of American companies not allowed to operate in China. Why pretend to be surprise?

> this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine

So narrow that Ukraine president decided to come visit to rally support?

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#450

We should ban this app from the United States. What dirt will China have on our politicians 30 years from now?

no, you should make it impossible for apps to track users like this.

if not, a new app will pop up and do the same.

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