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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

forbes.com

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#421

Post by _djo_ »

bombolo wrote: post #209
spookie wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can point out individual points of data as much as you want, the end result is what matters. Have you seen journalists attacking a dictatorship while living there, and go unpunished? Have you seen the same, but on democratic countries? That should answer it.

Nothing bad happened to snowden after all right?

Snowden wasn't a journalist, he was a contractor with a security clearance who leaked classified information to others and didn't go through any legally recognised whistleblowing channels. He broke the law and the conditions of his clearance.

Now you could argue that he still did a good thing, and perhaps that would have been taken into account by the jury in what would have been a proper trial in a civilian court had he not left the country.

None of the journalists who reported on those leaks were imprisoned or harmed. In fact, those on beats that require them to have accreditation to the White House, Pentagon, etc still have that accreditation.

This is fundamentally and vastly different to what happens to journalists in China, Russia, and similarly authoritarian states.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#422

Post by thefurdrake »

remarkEon wrote: post #316
nier wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was surprising to me seeing the news with Ukrainian soldiers using TikTok out in the field.

It's interesting in and of itself that ByteDance allows this. Perhaps PLA believes that bleeding Russia dry via America expending all of her reserve weaponry means that that American combat power can't be used in the Pacific. If you squint hard enough, it might actually be in CCP's interest for Russia to extend itself in Ukraine because it means that the Americans spend infinity dollars and burn through stocks of key…

I would be very hesitant to suggest that the engagement of limited artillery, ammunition, and side equipment in UA is remotely on the order of magnitude the United States is capable of mustering from its reserves alone. It doesn't make sense because manpower is more expensive to train and maintain than equipment, and the US isn't deploying manpower.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#423

Post by troyvit »

Tepix wrote: post #397
stjohnswarts wrote: post #347

We really really need to shut this down as a national security issue. If they took it off Apple and Google Play stores it would reduce usage immediately by at least 80-90% along with having apple/android send out blocks like they can for malware (which it is). It's hard to believe Biden didn't continue Trump's attempt to shut it down.

I didn't see you shut down Uber who did worse things.

Saudi Arabia killed an American journalist, dismembered him, and dissolved him in a vat of acid and yet we're still on our knees with their robe over our heads because yeah we need our economic relationship. The same will go with China.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#424

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #382
blackbear_ wrote: post #345

> General counsel Erich Andersen wrote to staff that a “misguided plan was developed and carried out by a few individuals within the Internal Audit department this past summer”, adding that those involved “misused their authority to obtain access to TikTok user data” in violation of its code of conduct. Ah yes, straight from the playbook: management gets caught being mischievous and throws a few underlings under the…

They could be agents for the communist party operating without the knowledge of the regular management.

> could be agents for the communist party operating without the knowledge of the regular management

Isn't that worse? Management being unable to make commitments, because they don't control their firms, the Party does, is the central problem with Chinese companies.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#425

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

philliphaydon wrote: post #379
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ByteDance is beholden to both the US and Chinese governments. The US government also has enormous power to coerce ByteDance (and other tech companies), and right now, ByteDance is under much stronger political pressure from the US than the Chinese government. ByteDance actually can structure its operations to separate its US and Chinese apps as much as possible, to limit the ability of either government to access dat…

The US has to get a court order which bytedance can challenge in a court room. If the CCP requests data they have no choice but to hand it over. There is no way bytedance can structure its operations to prevent the CCP requesting data.

> The US has to get a court order which bytedance can challenge in a court room.

As we've seen, the US is perfectly capable of building up a massive surveillance operation, and of tying the tech companies into that operation, without the involvement of any real court (i.e., something other than a secret rubber-stamp like the FISA court), and indeed without the public even knowing that such a system exists.

The US also exerts other forms of extra-legal pressure on companies. It can and does threaten tech companies to play ball, or else. When WikiLeaks published documents that embarrassed the US government, the US government froze all of their financial accounts, simply by telling the companies involved (e.g., PayPal) to do so. American tech executives know that they can face regulatory action if they say "no" to requests, so they have a very strong incentive to comply with demands to provide data, censor content, and help US government influence operations (see the recent revelations that Twitter worked with the US government on covert influence campaigns using inauthentic accounts).

> There is no way bytedance can structure its operations to prevent the CCP requesting data.

The Chinese government can request whatever it likes, but ByteDance can structure its operations to make those requests impossible or difficult to fulfill, or to make it so any attempt to fulfill such a request will be highly visible. The Europeans have exactly the same problem with regards to the US, which is one of the reasons that GDPR exists.

As I said before, right now, ByteDance faces much stronger political pressures from the US than from China.

However, beyond all this theoretical argumentation about which government exerts more control over ByteDance, the argument that TikTok is a security threat is absurd. It's primarily a platform for little funny videos, dance videos, etc. The motivation for banning TikTok is clearly just part of the larger tech war against China, and the general hysteria that has developed with regards to China in the US. That's why a thread about a tech company misusing user data to try to identify a leak has turned into a discussion about "the CCP."

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#426

Post by bagacrap »

trasz3 wrote: post #412
stjohnswarts wrote: post #347

We really really need to shut this down as a national security issue. If they took it off Apple and Google Play stores it would reduce usage immediately by at least 80-90% along with having apple/android send out blocks like they can for malware (which it is). It's hard to believe Biden didn't continue Trump's attempt to shut it down.

We should also shut down all the US-based media in Europe then, for the exact same reason.

If you haven't noticed, Europe has passed laws making it nearly impossible for American (and only American) tech companies to operate there.

I would probably be less inclined to want TikTok banned if China were in the midst of saving my entire continent from an unhinged, marauding neighbor.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#427

Post by dragonwriter »

troyvit wrote: post #423
Tepix wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see you shut down Uber who did worse things.

Saudi Arabia killed an American journalist, dismembered him, and dissolved him in a vat of acid and yet we're still on our knees with their robe over our heads because yeah we need our economic relationship. The same will go with China.

> Saudi Arabia killed an American journalist, dismembered him, and dissolved him in a vat of acid and yet we're still on our knees with their robe over our heads because yeah we need our economic relationship.

Not that it should matter, but in the interest of accuracy he was a Saudi journalist who wrote for (among others) an American media company, not an American journalist.

Unless they broke out the bone saws for someone else besides Jamal Khashoggi.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#428

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #419
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook, for example, did so, for its own purposes. This is just as bad It’s in a totally different league. Domestic corporation spying for commercial purposes versus a militaristic dictatorship with a track record of extrajudicial harassment.

A book i can highly recommend is "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by Professor Shoshana Zuboff from the Harvard Business School. TLDR "commercial purposes" include selling data in bulk to government agencies, which could not seize such data without a warrant and judicial oversight, thus allowing them to circumvent the very protection mechanisms that are in place to prevent extrajudical harassment in favor of crea…

> book i can highly recommend is "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" by Professor Shoshana Zuboff from the Harvard Business School

Great book. The 4th Amendment workarounds she describes should absolutely be outlawed. But I want to cite this very civil discourse we're having about this problem, and the paths to remedy it, in contrast to anything in China.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#429

Post by steponlego »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #409
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you propose we "ban" it from the United States? Sanction it. > some in government may want to do the same for Twitter Difficult to do this with an American, or even allied, country.

The result of this will be millions of American teen girls learning how to "sideload" apps onto their device. Of course, a significant percentage of them will end up sideloading malware onto their device at the same time. The funny aspect to me is that the senators pushing to "ban TikTok" are the same senators pushing for an "open App Store" bill. But I don't see how you can have it both ways. Sure you can sanction T…

Block it at the backbone like they're doing with Kiwi Farms.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#430

Post by trasz3 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #418
trasz3 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> China, which didn’t invade anyone in half a decade, militaristic? Let me guess, you’re American? Nobody's claiming America isn't militaristic. But it's not a dictatorship. And it's acting in its self interest. China blocks every foreign social media app. Whataboutism doesn't make rhetorical sense here.

[flagged]
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