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Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#171

Post by seanmcdirmid »

DieAgainAli wrote: post #162
samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Vw isn’t just cars. They’re are invested in things like Siemens’ energy to be the worlds biggest producer of synthetic fuel. Vw is the big boy and toyota is the big boy in asia. Tesla is valued the same as all the other car manufacturers put together. Their market share price is speculation from fan boys that want a poorly manufactured usb mouse to drive in that you have no way of fixing yourself or even taking to a…

Tesla is priced as a volatile growing tech company, for better or worse. They aren’t priced according to current performance, but predicted future performance.

VW is a known thing, they aren’t expected to get much bigger than they are today, they might even shrink a bit.

Tesla is more of a risky bet, which is why it’s stock price is so volatile.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#172

Post by icelancer »

DieAgainAli wrote: post #162
samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Vw isn’t just cars. They’re are invested in things like Siemens’ energy to be the worlds biggest producer of synthetic fuel. Vw is the big boy and toyota is the big boy in asia. Tesla is valued the same as all the other car manufacturers put together. Their market share price is speculation from fan boys that want a poorly manufactured usb mouse to drive in that you have no way of fixing yourself or even taking to a…

> If you want to make some money in the next year or so, open a short position on Tesla. Not financial advise, just 2 cents from a guy that worked in the motor industry for 15 years

Short pressure is enormous. It's not cheap to open this position.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#173

Post by faeriechangling »

bamboozled wrote: post #71
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #69

Just another carmaker, that did software really well, instead of the others..

Tesla does software really well ? What ?

Yeah they achieved several world firsts in AI. They're pretty good at software, although they do seem to be struggling as of late.

How high are your standards exactly?

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#174

Post by bfung »

benj111 wrote: post #99
bfung wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - The discounts are happening because of the Inflation Reduction Act that take effect in 2023. The IRA would give a $3500 tax credit for purchasing an EV, like Tesla Model Y. It takes about ~6 months for people who order a Tesla to get it delivered. For people who ordered in June, they want the IRA tax credit so many considered cancelling or delaying taking delivery until 2023. This Tesla incentive is to make thos…

Why would you want to maintain Q4 sales at the expense of profitability unless it is to maintain stock price though? And as it's obviously having the opposite effect there's no good reason for doing that.

1. Employees, esp the ones with more authority and up the management chain, has a lot at stake in stock compensation.

2. Having and holding inventory, while not bad, creates a whole slew of internal supply chain challenges. Unsure if Tesla as a company actually knows how to deal with that well since most of their existence has been not holding any inventory of completed vehicles. It could cause company problems that would cost way more to deal with than they have people & investment to fix it with.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#175

Post by tacker2000 »

oblio wrote: post #121
tacker2000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not, but since TSLA is a highly traded, and somewhat overpriced and volatile stock, it makes sense that every little piece of news will make it move.

> somewhat overpriced and volatile stock Understatement of the century. https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/US-Tesla-m... Keep in mind that the stack of companies on the right makes 30-50 times more cars than Tesla. This was from 2021 but I imagine it's not hugely different in 2022.

Hehe yes i agree fully, was a bit of a tongue in cheek statement.

Anyway their market cap now has tanked to 386B.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#176

Post by clouddrover »

snovv_crash wrote: post #145
t0mas88 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would make them more money per car but not overall. And they aren't competitive in that segment with the assets they have. They would have to design different models, scale down production etc, a pivot of the company. A better comparison is Mercedes or BMW, they're in a similar market segment and not selling 10x more cars at 1/5th the price live VW is. Still their market caps are lower than Tesla and their…

BMW and Mercedes aren't showing any real YoY growth. They have some token electric offerings, but don't seem particularly committed. This is HN, the difference in value between a growth company and an incumbent should be at the front of our minds at all time.

> They have some token electric offerings, but don't seem particularly committed.

The Mercedes EQS achieves greater range than any Tesla in real world highway range tests:

https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

So your claim is that can't Tesla can't match Mercedes' token EV offering? Why isn't Tesla showing more commitment?

Tesla doesn't match the BMW iX either. Or the Lucid Air. Or the Hummer EV:

https://insideevs.com/reviews/612030/hummer-ev-range-test/

It's like Tesla's not even trying.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#177

Post by t43562 »

Tossrock wrote: post #91
bamboozled wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think there is a market for less software in cars? My phone contains all the software my car needs and it does it better than any car I’ve used. I can also upgrade my phone without upgrading my car.

Your phone does not contain anti-lock break control, differential torque control, engine tuning control, or the huge amount of other automotive control software that's in a car. You're mistaking the user-facing software (infotainment) for the totality of the software in the car, when in reality it's a minority.

That might be true but the infotainment is a major factor in how people perceive the car.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#178

Post by karmasimida »

chii wrote: post #83
karmasimida wrote: post #57

Model 3 is overpriced As a tech worker myself I don’t want to support him at this moment either. I don’t like him for what is doing with Twitter drama.

> I don’t like him for what is doing with Twitter drama. i doubt boycotting the car would change his behaviour.

Doesn’t matter

My money my choice, it discounts the branding value for me which is previously there for Tesla. Now from a utility perspective I don’t think this car worth a premium, others are making EVs as well, and EVs actually has a lower market entrance bar than gas powered vehicles

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#179

Post by clouddrover »

snovv_crash wrote: post #128
oblio wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how you're listing Rivian, Lucid, NIO, but you're completely discounting the company that has invested tens of billions of euros into an EV platform, and will invest tens of billions of euros more over the next few years. VW. FYI, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai/Kia are also building huge EV platforms. I don't have sales numbers for them, but I imagine all of them are already selling tens of thousands if not hundreds o…

How many of those are building charger networks?

Europe's charging infrastructure is more developed than North America's. Because Europe adopted CCS Type 2 Combo as the common charging standard many companies can build out chargers:

- Ionity which has investments from auto makers: https://ionity.eu/en/ionity/who-we-are

- Circle K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro

- GridServe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY

- FastNed: https://fastnedcharging.com/en/

- BP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaSRn6hYOwc

- Shell: https://shellrecharge.com/en-gb/public-charging

- McDonald's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QXo8TuvqQI https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/newsroom/article/ev_rollo...

- EnBW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpbtgfqrYdA https://www.enbw.com/company/the-group/electric-mobility/

And so on and so forth. Europe is just a bigger EV market than North America is right now.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#180

Post by seanmcdirmid »

clouddrover wrote: post #179
snovv_crash wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of those are building charger networks?

Europe's charging infrastructure is more developed than North America's. Because Europe adopted CCS Type 2 Combo as the common charging standard many companies can build out chargers: - Ionity which has investments from auto makers: https://ionity.eu/en/ionity/who-we-are - Circle K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro - GridServe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY - FastNed: https://fastnedcharging.…

In the USA, everyone else but Tesla is doing CCS (they might also do whatever the leaf wants also, but usually with CCS). The problem is that Tesla has as much charging infrastructure as everyone else combined (and perhaps even more), especially out west where charging infrastructure is weaker due to less population density.
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