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Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#121

Post by oblio »

tacker2000 wrote: post #32
jacquesm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do their stocks respond in a similar way?

Probably not, but since TSLA is a highly traded, and somewhat overpriced and volatile stock, it makes sense that every little piece of news will make it move.

> somewhat overpriced and volatile stock

Understatement of the century.

https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/US-Tesla-m...

Keep in mind that the stack of companies on the right makes 30-50 times more cars than Tesla.

This was from 2021 but I imagine it's not hugely different in 2022.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#122

Post by jsemrau »

oblio wrote: post #117
jsemrau wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an assumption that Tesla has peaked as competitors are successful in gaining market share. Rivian's successful of Amazon launch [1], Lucid is starting in Europe [2], and NIO is opening up in Europe. Is Tesla, given that scenario, really a 372B company (as of Dec 23rd) or rather a 45B company like Ford and GM? [1] https://app.finclout.io/t/9Q2MQ8d [2] https://app.finclout.io/t/mOaRRwY

I love how you're listing Rivian, Lucid, NIO, but you're completely discounting the company that has invested tens of billions of euros into an EV platform, and will invest tens of billions of euros more over the next few years. VW. FYI, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai/Kia are also building huge EV platforms. I don't have sales numbers for them, but I imagine all of them are already selling tens of thousands if not hundreds o…

You are fully right. And only underlines my point.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#123

Post by Gibbon1 »

samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Musk is what we call a dummy. He could have bought GM for close to what he paid for twitter.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#124

Post by randomsearch »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #123
samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Musk is what we call a dummy. He could have bought GM for close to what he paid for twitter.

Bit OT but generally speaking if you care about company culture and want to build something great, acquiring mature companies is not the way to go. You end up with an alien culture you can’t integrate into your own. This is why Apple only buy companies they absolutely have to, and specifically early stage where the culture has not ossified yet.

So don’t buy GM - or Twitter…

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#125

Post by snovv_crash »

jacquesm wrote: post #111
mutatio wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about units sold though is it? I guess yes, usually it's a good approximation, but you could sell a single unit for $5bn and have a superior net profit. Tesla's profit margin looks to be ~15%, whilst VW is at 3% - I'd love to know what it does to those numbers. Tesla's net income for Sept 2022 actually appears to be much higher than VW, if I am interpreting the numbers correctly.

Usually profit margins shrink as volume goes up. You can't sell that many cars into the premium segment simply because the segment doesn't support the volume. VW sells a ton of cheap and small vehicles.

> VW sells a ton of cheap and small vehicles

Which inflates their unit numbers, exposes them to downturn risk, and doesn't really do much for their bottom line.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#126

Post by snovv_crash »

PaywallBuster wrote: post #65
samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Tesla fanboys claim Tesla is a vertically integrated company competing in different markets, hence having a huge TAM and higher chance for growth. Still!

There is something to this. If you include big chunks of Bosch, Siemens and all their other component providers in the VW market cap you would definitely get a more fair comparison to Tesla.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#127

Post by snovv_crash »

oblio wrote: post #115
hcks wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla made more money than VW selling 10 times less cars in September 2022.

Tesla sells luxury vehicles (by world standards) and there are only so many people who can afford them. Either Tesla stops growing at this rate, or they will have to "stoop" to cars costing $15k, in which case their profit margins will drop like a rock.

So why doesn't VW just sell premium cars if it would make them more money?

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#128

Post by snovv_crash »

oblio wrote: post #117
jsemrau wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an assumption that Tesla has peaked as competitors are successful in gaining market share. Rivian's successful of Amazon launch [1], Lucid is starting in Europe [2], and NIO is opening up in Europe. Is Tesla, given that scenario, really a 372B company (as of Dec 23rd) or rather a 45B company like Ford and GM? [1] https://app.finclout.io/t/9Q2MQ8d [2] https://app.finclout.io/t/mOaRRwY

I love how you're listing Rivian, Lucid, NIO, but you're completely discounting the company that has invested tens of billions of euros into an EV platform, and will invest tens of billions of euros more over the next few years. VW. FYI, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai/Kia are also building huge EV platforms. I don't have sales numbers for them, but I imagine all of them are already selling tens of thousands if not hundreds o…

How many of those are building charger networks?

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#129

Post by jacquesm »

snovv_crash wrote: post #125
jacquesm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually profit margins shrink as volume goes up. You can't sell that many cars into the premium segment simply because the segment doesn't support the volume. VW sells a ton of cheap and small vehicles.

> VW sells a ton of cheap and small vehicles Which inflates their unit numbers, exposes them to downturn risk, and doesn't really do much for their bottom line.

> Which inflates their unit numbers

No, they are real sales.

> exposes them to downturn risk

On the contrary, those models are the most successful ones during an economic downturn.

> and doesn't really do much for their bottom line

On the contrary, those models are the mainstay of their business.

Really, three out of three, why bother?

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#130

Post by Ekaros »

snovv_crash wrote: post #128
oblio wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how you're listing Rivian, Lucid, NIO, but you're completely discounting the company that has invested tens of billions of euros into an EV platform, and will invest tens of billions of euros more over the next few years. VW. FYI, Mercedes, BMW, Hyundai/Kia are also building huge EV platforms. I don't have sales numbers for them, but I imagine all of them are already selling tens of thousands if not hundreds o…

How many of those are building charger networks?

As many as have build their own petrol station network.
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