ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location • Hacker News Board

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#451

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

Zpalmtree wrote: post #365

jasonlotito wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case, there would be evidence of that. Prosecutors are notorious for wanting the biggest fish out there. While their might be bigger players that are getting away with this, it's also not unreasonable to think that it happened as the evidence shows. Basically, rather than make stuff up, I'd rather go with what the evidence shows and what can be proven. It's easy to hide in a big company, and it's at a bigger…

they just decided to track journalists for fun with no-one telling them to? seems pretty unlikely to me.

> they just decided to track journalists for fun with no-one telling them to?

That's not what I suggested in the slightest. Stop lying.

> seems pretty unlikely to me.

Sure, because I imagine they didn't just do it for fun. But that doesn't mean a more senior person has to be involved.

Back it up with evidence. Your feelings are worthless. I'm right, and you are wrong.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#452

Post by 8ytecoder » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

TechBro8615 wrote: post #409

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you propose we "ban" it from the United States? Sanction it. > some in government may want to do the same for Twitter Difficult to do this with an American, or even allied, country.

The result of this will be millions of American teen girls learning how to "sideload" apps onto their device. Of course, a significant percentage of them will end up sideloading malware onto their device at the same time. The funny aspect to me is that the senators pushing to "ban TikTok" are the same senators pushing for an "open App Store" bill. But I don't see how you can have it both ways. Sure you can sanction T…

I assume by sanction OP means you can’t do business with TikTok which means TikTok won’t have any ads to show for these people and make no money from it. Pretty sure they’ll stop supporting US market when that happens.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#453

Post by 8ytecoder » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

signatoremo wrote: post #449

wikfwikf wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Chinese company operates in the US, obeys local laws while doing the same sketchy things that home-grown companies do all the time and it's a 'national security issue'. US companies operating in the EU are expected to follow local laws and ... this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine, like it always does, and Europeans are supposed to be grateful?

Because TikTok is a Chinese company? There is precedence of American companies not allowed to operate in China. Why pretend to be surprise? > this is unfair because the US is pursuing its own narrow internal interests in Ukraine So narrow that Ukraine president decided to come visit to rally support?

Trade is mutual. No way in hell it’s mutual right now wrt how social media and other businesses from America operate in China. It’s fair and square to boot TikTok.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#454

Post by selivanovp » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

Yiin wrote: post #288

lannisterstark wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, your govt is banning enough of the shit with some real questionable reasons(while keeping some actual questionable things/traditions alive) that being skeptical is probably still the best bet. and let's not pretend that the UA govt has had a history of transparency lol. Being better than Russia has been a low bar in the eastern bloc. -30 is better than -70 but it's still far below 0.

I see UA before Zelensky and after as two completely different countries politically. Most of the things UA gov was criticized for seems to be mostly an effect of Russia's influence.

Ukraine under Zelensky is almost completely an authoritarian state, all opposition is banned and either jailed or left the country. All mass media are under government control or left the country. Courts are under total government control, well known murderers are freed from prisons as they were murdering people that were against current government. Business under total control and either does what’s told or gets taken away. You don’t like something and dare to voice your concerns? Welcome to the frontlines or a nearby forest with a 2m digged hole! You think there’s no more corruption? Have you noticed that more and more governments are concerned with all the weapon systems smuggled to their countries from Ukraine? Yes, they steal provided weapons and sell it for profit. You sent water and food aid to Ukraine? Local authorities are selling it to locals. Ukraine is a dystopian society. And no, it’s not just a result of war, all the processes started years ago and were just rushed as soon as the war started.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#455

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

bioemerl wrote: post #441

autoexec wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All companies in China are under the control of their state. TikTok is a state actor. Couldn't the same be said of companies here in the US? We know the government is collecting data from US corporations. Should other countries be blocking Google, Facebook and Microsoft?

The same could not be set of companies in the United States, and such controls would very quickly or lawsuits and all sorts of backlash. Companies do cooperate with the government, but for the most part that cooperation is either voluntary, or clearly defined by law which mandates cooperation. There is still some reason for concern, but there is much less reason for concern.

We now know that as a practical matter, American companies do cooperate with the US government in spying, influence operations, etc., and that the US government has a massive surveillance apparatus that is highly opaque and beyond the control of the American public.

That's why the sudden concern about TikTok theoretically being a problem comes across as an excuse for going after yet another Chinese company, as a way to pressure China and hamper its development.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#456

Post by 93po » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #271

93po wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're likely very much bought into the CCP and think that their work that furthers the interests of the CCP, including the tracking of potential dissidents to their political party, is fine. You don't see American tech workers batting an eye at tracking data being used to target who was at the Jan 6 protests, and frankly I don't think they'd care if it was also used against Alex Jones if he was there in a journalis…

This story has nothing to do with the CCP. In the US now, every story that has anything to do with China is reduced to "the CCP." This is a story about a tech company abusing its access to user data to try to track down which of its employees were talking to journalists. This could be a story about a Chinese company, an American company, or a company from pretty much any country.

High level executives at ByteDance are members of the CCP and closely work with the CCP. Journalists are reporting on ByteDance because of allegations that are implied in this quote from the article:

“TikTok has never been used to ‘target’ any members of the U.S. government, activists, public figures or journalists,”

The ongoing controversy with TikTok has always been about the concern of the government of China using TikTok data and manipulation of its content in clandestine ways. It all goes back to CCP.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#457

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 5:48 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #395

jasonlotito wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People learning about this for the first time. Snowden/wikileaks weren't even the first ones to share this. It's been well known for decades. It's not a secret. It's well known and well established in many industries. And why does this happen? Because money. Every single tech darling plays along. Chances are, unless you knew for a fact you weren't participating in this, you were at some level.

Prior to Snowden those people were derided as part of the paranoid tinfoil hat crowd. The only thing known was some vague discussion of Carnivore and Tempest.

No, they weren't. It was well known. Just because you didn't know doesn't mean it wasn't well known.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#458

Post by tjpnz » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

steponlego wrote: post #429

TechBro8615 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result of this will be millions of American teen girls learning how to "sideload" apps onto their device. Of course, a significant percentage of them will end up sideloading malware onto their device at the same time. The funny aspect to me is that the senators pushing to "ban TikTok" are the same senators pushing for an "open App Store" bill. But I don't see how you can have it both ways. Sure you can sanction T…

Block it at the backbone like they're doing with Kiwi Farms.

That's not quite right. You can still access KF if your ISP isn't peering with CenturyLink which recently gave in to a pressure campaign. There's not a single court order or law in the United States forbidding an ISP from routing packets to them.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#459

Post by hakre » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 6:05 PM UTC

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #235

canadaduane wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"addiction" and "just ___" are kind of mutually opposing forces. It can be difficult to understand addiction from the outside, as the solution seems obvious, but the internal world is not straight forward to navigate.

If the only way the poster is going to cure their social media addiction is through government intervention, I would suggest finding alternative means of addressing the issue.

Yes, this calling for the strong man looks really desperate and dangerous.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#460

Post by zwaps » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #439

deschutes wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it impossible for them to operate a business in the US ought to be more than sufficient.

How so? That would make it so that the cost per US user is negative since TikTok would not be getting revenue related to US users but would have hosting costs for them. But if TikTok really is as useful to the Chinese government to be the threat that the politicians trying to ban it make it out to be, surely the Chinese government would be willing to eat those costs to keep it going here.

No app that would be banned from app stores is likely to be successful in the long term.

Without revenue in it, and influencers on it, only few would jump through the insane hoops to sideload an app nowadays.