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Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#91

Post by Tossrock »

bamboozled wrote: post #75
karmasimida wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyundai and Chinese competitors are ramping up quickly as well I would imagine major Japanese/American manufacturers to follow suite Tesla’s reign of EV is going to be over in next 5 years. Maybe they can differentiate more on software but it is not going to sustain their margin

I also think there is a market for less software in cars? My phone contains all the software my car needs and it does it better than any car I’ve used. I can also upgrade my phone without upgrading my car.

Your phone does not contain anti-lock break control, differential torque control, engine tuning control, or the huge amount of other automotive control software that's in a car. You're mistaking the user-facing software (infotainment) for the totality of the software in the car, when in reality it's a minority.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#92

Post by akmarinov »

bamboozled wrote: post #71
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #69

Just another carmaker, that did software really well, instead of the others..

Tesla does software really well ? What ?

Compared to BMW, they’re light years ahead.

There’s been 12 updates to Teslas in the last month OTA, BMW did one in 2022 and any car with iDrive 7 (their first to support OTA updates) had to be taken in to the dealer to do the update.

Also looking at the apps, sending a command through Tesla’s app is instant, meanwhile BMW’s app makes you look at a spinner for 2 minutes.

I’m sure Tesla’s likely cutting corners somewhere to get that kind of performance, but as an end user it’s a great experience.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#93

Post by hackerlight »

gorgoiler wrote: post #64

The notion of “share price” is something I haven’t ever really understood. As I understand it, if four people are queueing up to buy stock A for [$10, $9, $8, $7] and four other people are in line to sell for [$10, $11, $12, $13] then the people at the front match up and swap one unit of stock for $10, and the stock exchange lists A as being last valued at $10. Stock B’s order books have four buyers at [$10, $1, $1,…

Resting liquidity far away from the best bid offer is close to meaningless. The last traded price contains almost all the relevant information from the microstructure. You can get an additional 0.03 percent notional of pricing information by looking at the what you're talking about.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#94

Post by youngtaff »

jacquesm wrote: post #36
eecc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, also Musk’s behavior on Twitter is bringing a lot of negative press, and the fact he liquidated a ton ton of host TSLA stock to finance the operation. But indeed markets are not exclusively driven by rational thinking, just look up “head and shoulders” in the context of stock charts. WTF is that? Horoscopes? SMH

They're a lot more rational now than a few months ago. Or are you (still) on the buying side? If so then you have more guts than me. The whole Twitter saga has me worried about Musk's mental health. Either that or he should rename himself 'CLO' (Chief Liability Officer).

Chief Liability Office Without Nuance?

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#95

Post by fragmede »

samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

You forgot the supercharger network and the battery factories. Hardware isn't software and those moats are harder to erode, especially for something the size of, well, a car.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#96

Post by youngtaff »

karmasimida wrote: post #61
jsemrau wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an assumption that Tesla has peaked as competitors are successful in gaining market share. Rivian's successful of Amazon launch [1], Lucid is starting in Europe [2], and NIO is opening up in Europe. Is Tesla, given that scenario, really a 372B company (as of Dec 23rd) or rather a 45B company like Ford and GM? [1] https://app.finclout.io/t/9Q2MQ8d [2] https://app.finclout.io/t/mOaRRwY

Hyundai and Chinese competitors are ramping up quickly as well I would imagine major Japanese/American manufacturers to follow suite Tesla’s reign of EV is going to be over in next 5 years. Maybe they can differentiate more on software but it is not going to sustain their margin

Pretty sure Telsa’s reign is already over outside the US

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#97

Post by bmitc »

parineum wrote: post #90
bmitc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several Chinese companies build more. And ICE and hybrid car makers like Hyundai and Kia that are now making EVs left and right make a lot of other cars. So it's a little weird to directly compare just a subset of their business. Hyundai and Kia deliver dozens of different models to dozens of different geographic markets. They absolutely have high volume manufacturing, and there is no reason why they will suddenly st…

>They absolutely have high volume manufacturing, and there is no reason why they will suddenly struggle with producing high volumes of EVs. The fact that they are struggling to satisfy the demand for their electric vehicles right now is a pretty good reason to believe that.

Is it? The Kia Telluride has been selling above sticker price since it was released a few years ago. The demand is high for almost all their cars.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#98

Post by repsilat »

samwillis wrote: post #80
ErikHuisman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just look at mcap but forget to factor in debt. vwgroup $402.96B

Sure, and Tesla at $33.74B. But VWs debt is mostly due to them operating as a bank that sells loans to their customers to buy their cars. So it's more nuanced than just folding the into the calculation. Most other car manufactures don't do that directly. Point is that in broad strokes it doesn't add up.

So Tesla's enterprise value is $426.5 billion and VW's is $473.9 billion?

Regarding the "operating as a bank", are we talking about net debt? I'd guess that if VW loaned money to customers those loans would be assets, right? They wouldn't get the cash from the customer, but they'd get something that looks about as good for their balance sheet hopefully?

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#99

Post by benj111 »

bfung wrote: post #54
moomin wrote: post #3

So wait, does this mean Tesla are finally making cars faster than they can sell them?

No - The discounts are happening because of the Inflation Reduction Act that take effect in 2023. The IRA would give a $3500 tax credit for purchasing an EV, like Tesla Model Y. It takes about ~6 months for people who order a Tesla to get it delivered. For people who ordered in June, they want the IRA tax credit so many considered cancelling or delaying taking delivery until 2023. This Tesla incentive is to make thos…

Why would you want to maintain Q4 sales at the expense of profitability unless it is to maintain stock price though? And as it's obviously having the opposite effect there's no good reason for doing that.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#100

Post by fragmede »

bamboozled wrote: post #71
qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #69

Just another carmaker, that did software really well, instead of the others..

Tesla does software really well ? What ?

The bar for car software is pretty low. Eg https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/14/23508088/volkswagen-soft...
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