Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 185 posts

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#61

Post by karmasimida »

jsemrau wrote: post #40
bamboozled wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with anything sorry ? If the current price was warranted why would the price be lowered regardless of the output ?

There is an assumption that Tesla has peaked as competitors are successful in gaining market share. Rivian's successful of Amazon launch [1], Lucid is starting in Europe [2], and NIO is opening up in Europe. Is Tesla, given that scenario, really a 372B company (as of Dec 23rd) or rather a 45B company like Ford and GM? [1] https://app.finclout.io/t/9Q2MQ8d [2] https://app.finclout.io/t/mOaRRwY

Hyundai and Chinese competitors are ramping up quickly as well

I would imagine major Japanese/American manufacturers to follow suite

Tesla’s reign of EV is going to be over in next 5 years. Maybe they can differentiate more on software but it is not going to sustain their margin

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#62

Post by devoutsalsa »

samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Tesla commands a premium because the cars make fart noises.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#63

Post by VaxWithSex »

mlindner wrote: post #51
tinyhouse wrote: post #45

The car industry caught up and Tesla is no longer the best electric around. It was just a matter of time on when their valuation would tank.

No not really. Tesla massively leads in EV deliveries still. None of the other EV manufacturers have really reached high volume manufacturing yet.

BYD

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#64

Post by gorgoiler »

The notion of “share price” is something I haven’t ever really understood.

As I understand it, if four people are queueing up to buy stock A for [$10, $9, $8, $7] and four other people are in line to sell for [$10, $11, $12, $13] then the people at the front match up and swap one unit of stock for $10, and the stock exchange lists A as being last valued at $10.

Stock B’s order books have four buyers at [$10, $1, $1, $1] and four sellers as [$10, $99, $99, $99]. Again the matching buyer and seller exchange $10 for one unit of stock, the exchange shows B on its ticker for $10, and we say that company A and company B have the same value.

B’s future looks a lot more bleak. Buyers say it’s a junk stock, only worth a dollar. Sellers claim the company is way under-valued: you need the best part of a hundred dollars to convince them to give up their share.

People say these things in real life — retail investor blogs, Mad Money, fund forecasts etc. — but those are just words compared to actual buy/sell orders. Do exchanges give us insight into what their order books actually look like, instead of just quoting the last price where a buyer and seller matched?

I want this problem to be symmetric in such a way that A and B truly do have the same value, as shown by the market, but something about the $1 buy price for B feels more important than the $99 sell price. I think it’s because buyers have actual dollars — the things we need to buy food and shelter — so what they say is more important than what B’s snake-oil stock-sales people claim.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#65

Post by PaywallBuster »

samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

Tesla fanboys claim Tesla is a vertically integrated company competing in different markets, hence having a huge TAM and higher chance for growth.

Still!

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#66

Post by karmasimida »

bfung wrote: post #54
moomin wrote: post #3

So wait, does this mean Tesla are finally making cars faster than they can sell them?

No - The discounts are happening because of the Inflation Reduction Act that take effect in 2023. The IRA would give a $3500 tax credit for purchasing an EV, like Tesla Model Y. It takes about ~6 months for people who order a Tesla to get it delivered. For people who ordered in June, they want the IRA tax credit so many considered cancelling or delaying taking delivery until 2023. This Tesla incentive is to make thos…

I just checked their delivery date in California

If you are buying Model Y, you can have readily available inventory

If you are buying model 3, the delivery date is about a month

The demand is absolutely softening

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#67

Post by Tanoc »

jacquesm wrote: post #22
Tanoc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a used but not common practice in the North American car market. Toyotathon happens in December in order to dump old stock and increase sales during the last possible part of the year. Same with the December To Remember sales event from Toyota's luxury arm Lexus. Ford and GM don't usually engage in this unless they're axing the model anyways (Pontiac Solstice and Ford Taurus for example). Happy Honda Days is the…

Do their stocks respond in a similar way?

Likely not. It seems to be more of a supply practice in order to promote lot turnover and prevent previous model years from sitting on the lot rather than help the company's finances directly. There's a perception that if an older model year car is on the dealership lot brand new, either the model is undesirable or that specific car has a defect. Unfounded or not the brands don't want that association.

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#68

Post by ErikHuisman »

samwillis wrote: post #59

I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…

You can't just look at mcap but forget to factor in debt. vwgroup $402.96B

Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models

#70

Post by bell-cot »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
bell-cot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a problematic "Full Self-Fighting" option.

A looped barrel that aims straight at the threads. The tank equivalent of a footgun. Aka TurretLoop, now for $420 at your nearest Tesla dealer, pre-orders only while stocks don't last.

The "footgun" barrel would be an excellent image for a editorial cartoon about Elan.

OTOH, making light of the all-too-real issue of friendly fire can go over poorly with older folks, those who've served, and those who've lost family members.

Post reply on HN