Just another carmaker, that did software really well, instead of the others..
Tesla does software really well ? What ?
Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
71–80 of 185 posts
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#72The car industry caught up and Tesla is no longer the best electric around. It was just a matter of time on when their valuation would tank.
No not really. Tesla massively leads in EV deliveries still. None of the other EV manufacturers have really reached high volume manufacturing yet.
Several Chinese companies build more. And ICE and hybrid car makers like Hyundai and Kia that are now making EVs left and right make a lot of other cars. So it's a little weird to directly compare just a subset of their business. Hyundai and Kia deliver dozens of different models to dozens of different geographic markets. They absolutely have high volume manufacturing, and there is no reason why they will suddenly struggle with producing high volumes of EVs.
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Musk has a habit, a la Boris Johnson, of "snowing" search results that are likely to be unfavorable with his own (Johnson made a big show of repeatedly talking about "painting wine boxes to look like buses" to distract from a campaign issue about Brexit and contentious claims painted on buses). "Did you mean Tesla Model Q?", might say Google in the future, when someone looks for Tesla Q. https://www.wired.co.uk/artic…
I've never been particularly convinced of the whole "he says he paints buses so that the brexit bus is pushed off Google" thing. It seems like the sort of thing that sounds right, so everyone starts repeating it, but really, is there any evidence at all?
It could be entirely coincidental but he also proposed a bridge between Northern Ireland and Scotland which was a useful distraction from his Garden Bridge which wasted somewhere in the region of £200M.
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#74Model 3 is overpriced As a tech worker myself I don’t want to support him at this moment either. I don’t like him for what is doing with Twitter drama.
I don't think he takes his work seriously enough. He is too busy being a dilettante when it seems like he has the talent to focus on one business and od it well. It almost feels like Tesla Motors can't be trusted as a company fundamentally just because Musk will get bored of running it.
Also looking at history and how things are going at Twitter. There might be real worry of him doing some weird pivot and then rolling it back again. Causing loss of money and trust.
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is an assumption that Tesla has peaked as competitors are successful in gaining market share. Rivian's successful of Amazon launch [1], Lucid is starting in Europe [2], and NIO is opening up in Europe. Is Tesla, given that scenario, really a 372B company (as of Dec 23rd) or rather a 45B company like Ford and GM? [1] https://app.finclout.io/t/9Q2MQ8d [2] https://app.finclout.io/t/mOaRRwY
Hyundai and Chinese competitors are ramping up quickly as well I would imagine major Japanese/American manufacturers to follow suite Tesla’s reign of EV is going to be over in next 5 years. Maybe they can differentiate more on software but it is not going to sustain their margin
I also think there is a market for less software in cars?
My phone contains all the software my car needs and it does it better than any car I’ve used.
I can also upgrade my phone without upgrading my car.
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#76I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…
I don't believe market cap to sales is a good ratio to look at when the margins are so different.
A forward P/E of 25 for a company growing 50% YoY is not unheard of.
Since you picked VW as reference, i had to look them up they have forward P/E 4.84 > trailing P/E 4.66 meaning they are shrinking (?)
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#77The notion of “share price” is something I haven’t ever really understood. As I understand it, if four people are queueing up to buy stock A for [$10, $9, $8, $7] and four other people are in line to sell for [$10, $11, $12, $13] then the people at the front match up and swap one unit of stock for $10, and the stock exchange lists A as being last valued at $10. Stock B’s order books have four buyers at [$10, $1, $1,…
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Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#78I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…
It's not really about units sold though is it? I guess yes, usually it's a good approximation, but you could sell a single unit for $5bn and have a superior net profit.
Tesla's profit margin looks to be ~15%, whilst VW is at 3% - I'd love to know what it does to those numbers. Tesla's net income for Sept 2022 actually appears to be much higher than VW, if I am interpreting the numbers correctly.
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#79Its almost like a very large shareholder knew, and despite saying they were not selling, was dumping shares the last couple of weeks on the hard core believers as quick as they could
Re: Tesla shares tank after U.S. discounts doubled on key models
#80I just fined the Tesla share price incredible hard to justify, I know they are a growing company with big ambitions but the numbers just don't work. Tesla: - Market cap: $392.78 billion - Q3 units sold: 343,000 VW Group: - Market cap: $70.98 billion - Q3 units sold: 2,181,300 Obviously they are slightly different companies, Tesla sell solar and battery storage products. And VW Group have brands that sell to a part of…
You can't just look at mcap but forget to factor in debt. vwgroup $402.96B
Sure, and Tesla at $33.74B.
But VWs debt is mostly due to them operating as a bank that sells loans to their customers to buy their cars. So it's more nuanced than just folding the into the calculation. Most other car manufactures don't do that directly.
Point is that in broad strokes it doesn't add up.