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FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

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Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#301

Post by xwolfi »

berberous wrote: post #291
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally when you post bail you have 2 options: 1. Pledge the full amount of the bail yourself. You get this back if the accused shows up in court, you lose it of they flee. 2. Pay some percentage (usually X%) to a bail bondsman. You never get that money back, and if the accused flees, the bail bondsman will try to get the money from whomever signed the bond (as the bail bondsman is on the hook). The bail bondsman ma…

I think bail norms probably vary by jurisdiction, etc., and your assumptions are not correct. My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the only collateral here is the home, and then Sam, his parents, and two others posted essentially an unsecured guarantee for the full $250M, such that the government could recover up that amount from any assets held by any of those parties. While unsecured, note…

So this bail is as colateralized as an Alameda loan ? This trial is starting well...

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#302

Post by dragonwriter »

csense wrote: post #260
hollerith wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A financial intermediary trusted by the court pledges to pay the court the 250M if SBF flees and the intermediary cannot find him and take him back into custody. For typical bail amounts i.e., $50k, the intermediary usually demands 10% of the $50k from the defendant (and his friends) as a deposit, but maybe SBF found an intermediary willing to make the pledge to the court for a deposit significantly less than 10% of…

Okay so it's basically a bail bond, sign over the $2M house to get the bondsman to post $250M bond. What bondsman has $250M? Even if they did, why would they ever agree to this? Isn't getting $2M from a defendant on a bail bond less than even the interest you could probably get by just putting your $250M in, say, a Treasury bond over the same timeframe? For that matter, who's willing to bet $250M at 99-to-1 payout od…

> Okay so it's basically a bail bond,

It is exactly a bond for bail, yes.

> sign over the $2M house to get the bondsman to post $250M bond.

No, there is no bondsman, the house is pledged directly to the court as security, his parents are additional surety for the $250M, and two other people are signing lesser bonds.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#303

Post by xwolfi »

dwighttk wrote: post #289
danrocks wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the people who secured the other part of his bail bond are all rich individuals holding all of their net worth in crypto?

Why would they want him out of jail?

So that he gives them a private key/dont give their names to authorities.

I d be Chalopin back in the Bahamas, I d help my former biggest client too

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#304

Post by dragonwriter »

danrocks wrote: post #266
csense wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on bail for a $250 million bond — secured only on his parents’ home in Palo Alto Wait what? How does that work? I thought if the bond was $X, that literally means you either (a) give the court $X, cash only or (b) sit in jail until trial. How can his bond be set at $250 million, yet the court somehow isn't just making him sit in jail until and unless he either goes to trial and is found not guilty, or he coughs up…

Do his backers get the bond money back if he does show up and the process runs without any hiccups?

> Do his backers get the bond money back if he does show up and the process runs without any hiccups?

There is no “bond money”. The $250M he and his parent signed for, including the lesser amount the other sureties are also on the hook for, doesn’t get collected by the court unless their is a failure to appear. The security interest in the home is the only thing actually transferred.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#305

Post by jjtheblunt »

coldtea wrote: post #267
jjtheblunt wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His parents' home isn't worth anything like that. Does that mean only a fraction of the bond value needs to be the security? If so, is that not bullshit?

Not any more bullshit than getting a loan by getting someone in good standing to sign they'll pay the full price if you fail.

But they can not pay the full price, right?

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#306

Post by lokar »

haneefmubarak wrote: post #54
ncallaway wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What recourse would a bail bond company have if they monitored him fleeing? Can they physically detain him? Or just report to the authorities?

Not only can they detain him, if he missed court, they can quite literally hire bounty hunters to track him down and bring him to the court so that they can get the money back.

Who, in some cases can break into YOUR house if they think he is hiding there

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#307

Post by msrenee »

sethd wrote: post #282
annexrichmond wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like he moved into his parents’ attic? They don’t have basements in California :P

Weird. I’ve heard this same phrase about every state I’ve lived in (always from a native) and it’s always turned out to be false. Perhaps such a state does exist? Sibling comment seems to indicate California might not be one of them.

New Mexico doesn't have much for basements, at least in the houses that I saw down there.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#308

Post by dragonwriter »

csense wrote: post #227
pavlov wrote: post #115

David Gerard has the best summary: ‘He was released on bail for a $250 million bond — “the largest ever pretrial bond,” apparently — secured only on his parents’ home in Palo Alto, where he will be living. ’SBF will surrender his passport and remain in home confinement with electronic monitoring — he’ll wear a bracelet. He will also be required to undergo regular mental health evaluation and treatment. No financial t…

> on bail for a $250 million bond — secured only on his parents’ home in Palo Alto Wait what? How does that work? I thought if the bond was $X, that literally means you either (a) give the court $X, cash only or (b) sit in jail until trial. How can his bond be set at $250 million, yet the court somehow isn't just making him sit in jail until and unless he either goes to trial and is found not guilty, or he coughs up…

> I thought if the bond was $X, that literally means you either (a) give the court $X, cash only or (b) sit in jail until trial.

The simple answer is that you are wrong, that's not how bail and bail bonds work, and its much more complicated than that. Essentially, money bail is a pre-declared failure to appear penalty, and bond is whatever the court accepts as a sufficient promise to pay, which can include purchasing a contract from an official bail agent, having other individuals agree to be on the hook for payment, providing somr property to the court, either physically or a legal claim that allows them to seize it for nonpayment, or a combination of these.

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#309

Post by Consultant32452 »

berberous wrote: post #291
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally when you post bail you have 2 options: 1. Pledge the full amount of the bail yourself. You get this back if the accused shows up in court, you lose it of they flee. 2. Pay some percentage (usually X%) to a bail bondsman. You never get that money back, and if the accused flees, the bail bondsman will try to get the money from whomever signed the bond (as the bail bondsman is on the hook). The bail bondsman ma…

I think bail norms probably vary by jurisdiction, etc., and your assumptions are not correct. My guess is he was not required to post full collateral, i.e. the only collateral here is the home, and then Sam, his parents, and two others posted essentially an unsecured guarantee for the full $250M, such that the government could recover up that amount from any assets held by any of those parties. While unsecured, note…

Cash bail means the accused pays the full bail amount and then gets it refunded after trial.

A surety bond is basically a loan, through a bail bondsman. The bail bondsman has insurance in case you don't show up.

A property bond is where the court gets a lien on your property. It sounds like this is what happened.

https://money.howstuffworks.com/bail.htm

Re: FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried to be released on $250M bail

#310

Post by cm2187 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #152
cm2187 wrote: post #5

Wait. Only a few days ago he declared he had less than 100k on his bank account and now he forks out 250m? It's hard to believe anything else he said.

> Only a few days ago he declared he had less than 100k on his bank account and now he forks out 250m? No, he (or one or more other people on his behalf) secured a $250m bond. Bail bonds generally cost significantly less than the amount of bail; in many states with a maximum or exact amount set by law. In New York, the maximum is 10% up to $3000, 8% for $3000-$10000, 6% for the amount over $10000. At $250M bail, the…

I don't think anyone is going to take a 250m credit risk on you if you only own 15m. And I don't think the bail would have been set in the hundreds of millions if the judge wasn't convinced SBF was loaded.
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