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O Holy Crap

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121–130 of 323 posts

Re: O Holy Crap

#121
I have most things that are made nowadays. The arguments for the status quo "you're getting it cheaper, it will actually last quite a bit, it's greener" etc are not really valid.

Even if an item is cheaper as a one off purchase, if I have to buy 3-4-5-10 more of the same, am I not paying now for the same higher quality product, but in the meantime the waste I generated is there, pilling up somewhere "else" where it doesn't bother my Western sensibilities.

The research part doesn't work that well either. I spent days researching a variety of products we have around our house and a bunch of different items a few friends asked me about. It's brutal.

Days of reading reviews, days of looking for the faults, days for trying to find the factory that doesn't abuse people or pay them garbage forcing them into slavery. For nothing. Some products work out, some don't, I pay more than the average guy to get maybe an extra year out of the "thing".

I used to have a Logitech MX518 (the original one that came out in 2006 if I remember correctly) and it still works. One of my parents is using it. It handled over 5000 games of Warcraft 3, over 4000 games of CS 1.6, easily 2500-3000 games of Dota and about 16 years in total of browsing websites and general usage. I replaced the skates once and that was about it. The new M590 I bought to keep quiet around the house had a faulty left switch within months... It also cost about half, but that would mean it should work... 8ish years then.

I had an O'Neill backpack bought in the early 2000s and used it for almost 20 years. It's currently being used by a friend who needed a small and simple backpack. I recommended another backpack to a friend, it fell apart in 10 months after costing 100$+. Twice the price of the O'Neill...

I'm tired. I'm tired of having to spend days to figure out if your product will fail within the year. I'm tired of having gone through about 6 milk hand-held frothers until I found a manual one that is a piece of glass and a handle... I had gone through 2 coffee grinders until I found a manual one made out of glass and metal.

Just...

Re: O Holy Crap

#122
post #82

I don't quite know what to say to what I found near the end in this article: > Recently, my wife needed a carrot peeler. She needed one rather quickly. Off to Target. The one she bought (the only one on sale)... I stopped at the phrase "the only one on sale". Inevitably the next part reads: > looked handsome enough, and the brand was one she recognized, but it failed in the useful department, miserably. It wasn’t sha…

You are right but this very much reinforces the saying "it's very expensive to be poor". $99 for a coffee grinder is a lot of money for most people. At the US minimum wage it's almost 17 hours of work, after taxes are taken out. So all they can afford is the cheaper version but then they have to consistently purchase a new one so end up paying more over time. Pretty interesting phenomenon.

Re: O Holy Crap

#123

I just don't see it. Were I to go shopping at wal-mart, and if I didn't understand anything about failure modes, I might, but I find it very easy to find things that last. Partly because out lifestyle now is lighter on things, and we need fewer of them. I don't need a juicer because... I don't juice. Another factor might be that we still have an obsession with "Power". Look at how impact drivers are reviewed, based o…

A broken fridge ruins lots of food, worth lots of money.

A broken washing machine or dishwasher can flood your house, costing 10s of thousands of dollars.

A broken dryer can burn your house down.

And even if some of those aren’t common failure modes (fridge is common), it is incredibly inconvenient and expensive to be without a major appliance for (insert supply chain guesstimate number of) weeks every year or so.

Re: O Holy Crap

#124
post #4

Be aware that survivorship bias may fool you when comparing the quality of new and old items. The single juicer that lasts 70 years may be the only one of its kind to last that long, the others from the same production year being left to rot and rust in a landfill. That being said, I definitely believe that planned obsolesence and unintentional bad quality is a plague on modern consumer items. I am lucky enough to ha…

Quality manufacturing in the Good Ole Days is a myth. The Japanese are our lunch in auto in the 70s due to a lack of Quality.

Planned obsolescence is a thing. So is building or making for the short term. There just wasn’t this great era where people made things for the long haul out of pride or something else. People always took the short term view when the market structure or incentives encouraged it.

Re: O Holy Crap

#125
Our expectations have also changed over the years. Despite the perception of a downward spiral in quality, cars have, in general, become much better. Remember when fuel injection was exotic (well, you probably don't). My first car, a 1971 Plymouth fury, required a special little ritual just to get it started, involving pumping the accelerator a precise number of times, then turning the key. When I started driving it in only it's 7th year of life, nothing smaller than a softball could be put in the trunk, because the thing was seemingly designed to soak up road salt and rot the rear quarter panels, and there were holes that large on both sides of the body work. Have to say that after that, driving a Toyota for the first time in 1985 was... a revelation. Today, cars last longer, have more features. Most econoboxes will make it past 100K miles no problem.

But when today's cars break, there's generally no high school shop class knowledge to fall back on to fix the every-day small things, and anything major requires information, tools, and parts that are beyond most consumers. Remember that the people that work for the car repair places probably didn't have vocational courses in high school, either.

Modern society's items have been value engineered, and it seems like the operating tolerances are narrower as well. Unless there's aggressive maintenance, today's stuff just breaks vs. limping along at some reduced performance level. And some items that previously were built to allow for maintenance are built for wholesale replacement now instead.

It's rare for today's consumers to fix anything, let alone their electronics, but it used to be common for people to try to repair their own TVs by testing and swapping tubes until the 1980s. Of course, before digital TV and cable EVERYONE fiddled with their "sets" to get a good picture. "Snow" and "Rabbit Ears" are not terms associated with TV watching today. I couldn't buy a 40" color TV that spied on my viewing habits in the 90's for the equivalent of today's $299 either.

Shop wisely for your kitchen appliances (mixers, toaster, blenders), high-end cutlery, and tools at thrift shops in neighborhoods transitioning from older demographics. Learn how to sharpen knives and maintain stuff.

Use all your senses: learn what your major appliances and vehicles sound like when they're operating correctly, and listen to them periodically. Extra squeaks or rumbles when the furnace runs? Maybe a new blower motor is in your future. Notice the refrigerator cycling more frequently? You ARE vacuuming the cooling coils periodically, right? Dishwasher door seem easier to operate? Bet one of your balancing springs has failed.

Troubleshooting and maintenance is a life skill.

We were fortunate to be able to buy our first "new" house with new everything 8 years ago. Having all-new stuff was great for a while. The gas water heater lasted 5 years. A nephew plumber replaced it for the cost of the new unit (~1K) vs quoted $5K job by plumbing outfit. Took him 4 hours. The expansion tank started to fail two years later; $69 plus a few minutes of labor. The forced-air ducting between 1st and 2nd floor is undersized, so the single-glower furnace is inadequate to keep the house at a consistent temperature. Finally put in a heat pump this year to partially remedy that situation. Original wall timers for various fans failed about every 2-3 years. Choice is replacing the $20 wall timer with now $25 wall timer, or fixing the original electronics ($1 with a replacement part from Digikey). Original washer, a front loader that came with the new home, failed 1 month (yes, 1 month) out of warranty, with a bad trunion. To fix this required a literal complete tear-down and rebuild with the new tub. GE would do nothing other than send free parts. Our trusted appliance guy said he wouldn't do it, because it took too long (8 hours) and was uneconomic. I did it in about seven, but replaced the washer a few years later, since front loaders just don't get clothes as clean.

Re: O Holy Crap

#126

I just don't see it. My pens and my matchsticks work fine. My gloves are still gloves five winters later. Potato peeler, peels potatoes. I think the author doesn't understand that there's a tier of disposable goods for just about everything and if you don't shop wisely you'll take some of it home. Appliances for example: don't buy them from web pages and don't listen to Wirecutter. This is just letting marketers tell…

> there's a tier of disposable goods There are some product categories for which no strong options exist. For example, contemporary, top-of-the-line Kitchen Aid mixers have intermittently been produced with plastic motor parts. Go look at the reviews for sewing machines. Klein tools, which have historically been super high quality, made in USA, has started mixing in cheaper made in china products. Chippewa boots (War…

Kitchenaid, Cuisinart, these are the kinds of brands I'm talking about. They had their moment last century but the brand has been transferred to a new owner, or they've switched to volume sales in a big box retailer, or both.

Kitchenaid is not a good brand. They haven't made top-of-the-line anything in decades

Re: O Holy Crap

#127
post #4

Be aware that survivorship bias may fool you when comparing the quality of new and old items. The single juicer that lasts 70 years may be the only one of its kind to last that long, the others from the same production year being left to rot and rust in a landfill. That being said, I definitely believe that planned obsolesence and unintentional bad quality is a plague on modern consumer items. I am lucky enough to ha…

> Be aware that survivorship bias may fool you when comparing the quality of new and old items.

Indeed. So I skim the article and wind up agreeing with how some things seem to be built to fall apart or under perform (modern HE washers, I'm looking at you). Then I get called to the shop floor to check a machine and the operator, an older gentleman gets to talking with and starts the same conversation! He is in his mid 60's his you'd think he'd go on lamenting the loss of the sturdy goods from his youth but nope! He too said there was plenty of cheap flimsy crap to be had.

Though one thing I will say has changed: the ability to repair stuff. Computers stuffed with proprietary code have taken control of even the simplest appliances (washers, stoves, refrigerators). Things that were made from multiple pieces of stamped or cast metal are now made from a single piece of plastic that is less sturdy which melts or deforms under heat (some eventually become brittle and crumble). I can see how it makes things cheaper and easier to make but they don't sell the plastic bits separately requiring me to toss everything over a single broken piece. And even if something is made of metal, the stamping or casting is so thin that it might as well be made of plastic (e.g. the tin foil harbor freight stock carts.)

But the retailers and consumers are adjusting to this model: goods are so cheap they are disposable. Don't bother returning it, just toss it. This has lead to people buying new items and tossing them right into the trash because amazon will ship another. Or maybe return the broken item in its place. Or you buy a new item to take a part off and toss it because amazon told you to. Consumers get to keep buying cheap crap and companies keep the money rolling in. This low effort thinking is filling landfills with unused or barely used items at an alarming rate which is a great example of unchecked capitalism. Whats worse is I guarantee you most people could live happily without most of the shit they buy.

Re: O Holy Crap

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw it away! It is costing more in annual electricity than a new one. Never mind it's old; it's insulation is worthless and its compressor is very inefficient.

Is this a joke?! Are you a fridge salesman or something? You do understand that many of us would pay more for that fridge and gladly pay way more in electricity to have it perform its job reliably, right?

Replaced my 30yo appliances. My electric bill dropped in half.

Sure you have the resources to burn all the electricity you want for convenience, you do you.

Re: O Holy Crap

#129
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ordered a pair of buffalo jeans the other day and they arrived missing a belt loop on the front. Pretty frustrating as I've ordered jeans from this company without issues before this. I generally only have 2 pairs of jeans on hand at any time so my go to brand shipping flawed jeans was a bummer.

Maybe its time more people learn how to sew.

Maybe, but I would prefer they just sent me a proper pair of jeans. I do agree though, sewing appears to be a dying art in laymen.

Re: O Holy Crap

#130
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the history of light bulbs, an actual amazing conspiracy few people know about :)

Yep, bulbs are now all complete crap - they used to last decades. Was having my house painted a few years back, I have a triple set of spots near the very top of the roof (so about 30 feet in the air) - painter helpfully suggests - do you want me to replace those bulbs up there while I have my ladder up there? I agreed. Big mistake, the bulbs their were still working 17 years after I moved in - now I have to replace…

What kind of bulbs are you using? LED bulbs should last a decade.
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