O Holy Crap • Hacker News Board

Re: O Holy Crap

#111

Post by jtbayly » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #101

ejb999 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2nd fridge in my garage, an old philco one - still running perfectly, 365 days a year for almost 70 years. Never needed a repair in the 25 years I have owned it.

Throw it away! It is costing more in annual electricity than a new one. Never mind it's old; it's insulation is worthless and its compressor is very inefficient.

Is this a joke?!

Are you a fridge salesman or something?

You do understand that many of us would pay more for that fridge and gladly pay way more in electricity to have it perform its job reliably, right?

Re: O Holy Crap

#112

Post by datr » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

derbOac wrote: post #64

vages wrote: post #4

Be aware that survivorship bias may fool you when comparing the quality of new and old items. The single juicer that lasts 70 years may be the only one of its kind to last that long, the others from the same production year being left to rot and rust in a landfill. That being said, I definitely believe that planned obsolesence and unintentional bad quality is a plague on modern consumer items. I am lucky enough to ha…

I used to think if you looked hard enough and researched things, maybe paid more sometimes, you could get around it. I still think that is necessary, but not sufficient. It won't save you; you also need a bit of luck. My biggest bugaboo in this area is with clothes. At some point I started being more careful, but found the published specs won't help because they don't actually tell you everything you need to know, or…

I've run into this issue with jeans. They develop holes around the crotch six months after buying a new pair.

A decade ago I'd buy jeans and they'd last years. Unfortunately my waist line has since increased and none of those survivors now fit me.

I started with Levi 511s and -- when they started failing -- moved to Nudie Jeans (2x price) as they offer free repairs. When I tried to get them repaired though I was told there was a six week waiting time which seemed excessive.

Next I went with a local atelier (3x price) figuring if I spent more that would solve the problem but it happened again.

Re: O Holy Crap

#113

Post by starkd » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #109

vages wrote: post #4

Be aware that survivorship bias may fool you when comparing the quality of new and old items. The single juicer that lasts 70 years may be the only one of its kind to last that long, the others from the same production year being left to rot and rust in a landfill. That being said, I definitely believe that planned obsolesence and unintentional bad quality is a plague on modern consumer items. I am lucky enough to ha…

I ordered a pair of buffalo jeans the other day and they arrived missing a belt loop on the front. Pretty frustrating as I've ordered jeans from this company without issues before this. I generally only have 2 pairs of jeans on hand at any time so my go to brand shipping flawed jeans was a bummer.

Maybe its time more people learn how to sew.

Re: O Holy Crap

#114

Post by blueblob » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

nosianu wrote: post #82

I don't quite know what to say to what I found near the end in this article: > Recently, my wife needed a carrot peeler. She needed one rather quickly. Off to Target. The one she bought (the only one on sale)... I stopped at the phrase "the only one on sale". Inevitably the next part reads: > looked handsome enough, and the brand was one she recognized, but it failed in the useful department, miserably. It wasn’t sha…

They also complained about pyrex not being durable because they dropped it. My pyrex has lasted 2 decades of use and I think it's an example of a durable product.

Re: O Holy Crap

#115

Post by indymike » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

> Be aware that survivorship bias may fool you when comparing the quality of new and old items.

This is true, but there is an area where newer products are not able to live up to older products: repairability. There's far too many products that simple cannot be maintained or repaired - laptop computers from a particularly successful maker of Unix powered machines comes to mind.

Re: O Holy Crap

#116

Post by throw827474737 » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:52 PM UTC

Those articles and our experience about modern obsolescense and optimizing the last cent of products out increase... yet I'm not seeing really the counter trend, but maybe it is yet so hidden I have just not found it? If anyone has..

Why are there no companies claiming robustness / longevity above everything else? Really (my wife might have a say still), I would give a shit about the design and looks of a product if it guaranteed 10/20 years or even lifelong usage, and I would also pay double price at least for true guaranteed and proven quality.

And also why are not more test reviews / magazines focusing more on this aspect? I barely find anything about that. (Yeah, I know one part to this is you will often only find out after 10 years..)

But still, it seems so many peope would be interested in such products, longevity, repairability.. but from multisockets over fridges to cars, every company is just releasing a dozen different products a year (and often you cannot even figure out the difference between SuperDuperRaido1080 vs SuperDuperRadio1085+) that will break soon.

Besides it just making sense would also be very nice and important ecologically.. but where, how? HELP! I have gone on daylong web/magazine researches for all kinds of products, you get lost in advertisements, and usually you are still disappointed by quality 1 month or latest 3 years down the road :(

Re: O Holy Crap

#117

Post by armenlos » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

In my student home, we own a stubborn cheap, little coffee grinder. I estimate it has grinded over 100kg of coffee beans in over 10 years time.

Expected one of there parts to fail:

- The motor - The cable - The button - The safety switch that detects the lid

I wonder what happened to the employee who designed this grinder. Maybe they got fired because they should have used cheaper components to generate more profit.

Re: O Holy Crap

#118

Post by mikepurvis » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

eternityforest wrote: post #67

jtbayly wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal, vs plastic gears. Bigger vs tiny electric motor. Metal vs plastic moving parts in contact with the fruit. Plug-in vs battery powered. These are the things that I would place money on as the reasons the 70 year old one is still functioning, and none sold today will work in 5 years. (I’ve never looked at one of these items. I’m just guessing. But I’d still place money on it.)

Reliability now isn't done with the same methods as it was then. Back then, the good stuff might have been good because the motor was big. The modern good stuff probably has a brushless motor that can prevent stalls. It doesn't matter if it's big or small, the computer won't let it overheat, so they can make it smaller to save money that they can spend on whatever part is the actual failure mode. The trouble is findi…

100% agree, but I think the issue here comes with a typical phased design process:

- Mechanical: "Here's the physical specs, no need to account for A, B, or C, as it's been handled in software"

- Electrical: "Here are the physical constraints and electrical spec. No need to account for X, Y, or Z, as it's being handled in software."

- Firmware: "You need to handle A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, but if you run out of time or don't have the budget to make up a test rig for validating all those cases are handled correctly, no worries we'll just ship it anyway."

Re: O Holy Crap

#119

Post by jtbayly » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

taldo wrote: post #32

Besides echoing the survivorship bias warning in other comments, I'd like to point out that just a bit of skill and will can turn the fate of a lot of this 'crap' around. Dull peeler? Sharpen it. Now you have a sharp peeler that can probably last 10 years with occasional attention. Dead grinders? I'm sure at least one of them could've been fixed and extended its life significantly. Sure, things are getting less and l…

We got a hand (immersion) blender. Plastic gear to the metal shaft. Stripped out. Non-repairable. Can’t find one without a plastic gear. Meanwhile, mother-in-law’s is metal and who knows how many years old, still working fine.

Re: O Holy Crap

#120

Post by H1Supreme » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

wincy wrote: post #7

My $4000 GE refrigerator has broken twice now in the five years we have owned it, both times in the exact same way. The way the fridge works seems simple: the cold freezer is on the bottom, and then a fan blows air up through a shaft to the relatively warmer refrigerator as needed to keep it just above freezing. Instead, the failure state is that the fan that handles this broke with no warning. I lost a bunch of groc…

I think there's a real opportunity for a company to release a (affordable) fridge that has zero gadgets, and markets the quality of the cooling system. How can a 40 year old fridge that lives in the garage be more reliable than a new Samsung (or GE in this case)? Obviously, it's cheap components. But, considering how much of a pain in the ass moving a refrigerator is, "won't break" is highly marketable here. I'd certainly buy one.