Could Caroline have reported prior to collapse and earned a buttload of cash from the SEC for whistleblowing?
Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
181–190 of 338 posts
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's how they make an intimidating threat to push for cooperation and look maximally generous when the sentence is reduced. Makes perfect sense.
That doesn't make any sense, everyone on the receiving end of these threats has a lawyer. Even the shittiest public defender will translate this for you. These numbers exist solely for the audiences at home.
Same with the "street value" they cite in drug busts. Sure, that guy with 100kg of coke is going to be selling it in little 1g baggies.
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#183Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, this is the comment section of a HN topic that's specifically about Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang (their names are included in the title). If this were some random other thread, then yeah sure it would be confusing to just say Gary or Caroline.
I guess my question is, why the familiarity? Why not Ellison and Wang? The confusion stuff I shouldn't have included, it was extraneous. I'm just puzzled why we're speaking of them as if they were friends or treasured celebrities. I don't mean that as a criticism either, I just feel like I missed a beat culturally.
Normally we would know their middle names as well
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry but no. They absolutely know what they were doing was wrong. They just felt right about it. Don't make excuses for white collar criminals.
Lol... I'm not making excuses. If you read my post history, you'll note I've been a constant critic of crypto and the accompanying scams. i'm just pointing out that the people who commit some of the worst crimes often convince themselves they are doing great good. Most of us believe that we would never do bad things. However, most of us are quite capable of it because we justify our actions to ourselves, and it's ver…
100% this. the most dangerous situation is when people convince themselves that their goal is objectively good and thus adopt a Machiavellian attitude that the ends justify the means. i imagine the thought process goes something like "it doesn't matter how we obtain all these money, as long as we ultimately use the money to do good. the good outweighs the bad, and as long as we get away with it, people will eventually forget the bad with time."
even worse is when the people who have this attitude are extremely ignorant but truly and genuinely believe they have good intentions. they will proceed to do extremely damaging things to other people, causing extreme harm, all because they truly believe their intentions are good, but often their viewpoint is wrong due to incomplete information. these people almost see themselves as heroes and are empowered by their moral conviction from that viewpoint. i've observed this first-hand too many times in my personal life.
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
110 years! I wonder how many she'll get out of that for being the first out of the woodwork.
My guess is she will get 10. 30 for the crimes, less 10 for being a first time offender and not the ring leader and less 10 for cooperation and contrition.
I don’t think shell end up doing any time.
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#187Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Usually this stuff takes forever as evidence is carefully gathered. Curious if anyone has any insights here.
And why no charges for Celcius and other ponzis? Are they harder to prove fraud?
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#188SEC Complaint with more details. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-234 I have read more SEC complaints this year than in all of my previous years combined. —- Edit 1 Caroline’s guilty plea: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...
Interesting: On page 4, there's a section listing out the crimes she will not be further prosecuted for. As you'd expect this includes the 7 counts listed earlier, but there's also an 8th section that's been redacted. Any ideas on what this could be referring to?
> As you'd expect this includes the 7 counts listed earlier, but there's also an 8th section that's been redacted. Any ideas on what this could be referring to?
My guess would be that it refers to a conspiracy (or other “group” offense, like RICO [0]) for which she was not charged, and which no one else had been publicly charged yet, such that not redacting it would reveal otherwise nonpublic information about how DoJ expects that it might charge other people.
[0] RICO is cited simply as an example of a group offense that is distinct from conspiracy; I am not predicting RICO charges, to be clear.
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting: On page 4, there's a section listing out the crimes she will not be further prosecuted for. As you'd expect this includes the 7 counts listed earlier, but there's also an 8th section that's been redacted. Any ideas on what this could be referring to?
Wait, so she won't be prosecuted despite pleading guilty? Or how does this work?
> Wait, so she won't be prosecuted despite pleading guilty?
She won't be further prosecuted (i. e., beyond the charges she is pleading guilty to) for conduct related to the acts specified, if she cooperates fully as agreed. In other words, supposing there are other charges related to that cobduct which could be filed, DoJ is bound not to pursue them if she upholds her end of the agreement. If she does not, DoJ can add those additional charges on top of the existing charges (or, replacing the existing charges with more serious ones related to the same conduct.)
Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn't make any sense, everyone on the receiving end of these threats has a lawyer. Even the shittiest public defender will translate this for you. These numbers exist solely for the audiences at home.
Same with the "street value" they cite in drug busts. Sure, that guy with 100kg of coke is going to be selling it in little 1g baggies.
Well, that's a lie which at times has real impact on trial outcomes. I wouldn't really put it in the same category.