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Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

finance.yahoo.com

341–350 of 465 posts

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#341
post #9

I feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across from them at any time, expecting them to behave within normal social boundaries. Imagine a family with a new born, working 50+ hours at a physically demanding job, making $80k/yr combined, and then losing their home for no reason... and then being expected to…

> then losing their home for no reason Do we have more detail on how these homes were lost? It sounds like Wells Fargo refused, improperly, to modify a mortgage.

This is what it said

> On home loans, the CFPB said the bank improperly denied mortgage modifications over a seven-year span, with some customers losing their homes.

This says it started in 2011 (maybe earlier). If they already had a mortgage, in a good labor and good housing market, I doubt that many people actually lost their homes who wouldn't lose them anyway. Mortgage modifications are for people already behind on their payments.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK well tech comp is very much not that high in the UK, so I guess we're not all in the same boat here. But the fact remains that things are objectively, numerically harder for us, and getting a lesson in life from those who had it easier is not very convincing.

// But the fact remains that things are objectively, numerically harder for us So I never dug into this before but I found this interesting chart from the US government [1] It does seem like a relatively smaller percentage of young people own homes today vs 40 years ago - but not as shocking as you'd imply: Percentage of people Percentage of 35-40 who own a home: 1982: 70% 2021: 62% So while the trend is down - it st…

I suspect the numbers would be worse if you looked at households instead of individuals due to declining marriage rates (but I'm not willing to put in the effort to find numbers).

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#344
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to marginalize your frustration, but I feel like you may have unrealistic expectations. First, you have a tech industry salary, which is probably at least twice as much as the median wage, if not more. Not only is it white-collar work with practically no risk to your physical safety (assuming you exercise, eat right, etc), but monetarily this puts you _way_ ahead of most people right out of the gate. If…

> Since you asked for it, my advise is to live well under your means, save aggressively, set goals, and never stop learning. If you want to challenge yourself, look into a concept called "early retirement." Good luck. Ah yes, glamorizing the hustle. You'll surely make it if you just "work hard enough," wink wink. Working a 9-5 career is (and has been) a net negative ROI for at least 2 decades, if not more. To be comp…

If the government had let the banks crash in 2008 the economy would be in a much worse state today and everyone would be a lot poorer. Foreign investors hold a vanishingly tiny fraction of the real estate in America and are not responsible for whatever economic ills you are projecting onto them.

You've chosen to believe a lot of incorrect things in service of your ideological commitments. You should learn to distinguish between things that are actually true and things that you want to be true because it would validate your politics.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#345
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time they had a big-ticket punishment [0] for their psychotic corporate behavior, it was because they had created millions of fraudulent accounts. There is no way to keep that quiet or "get away with it," they just assumed they would not be meaningfully punished. What you've posted is completely wrong, but it's the answer to a question I had, which was why the fuck does anyone still bank with Wells Fargo? Th…

In the previous case, the company was fined $185Million. The CEO was personally fined $20M in a later lawsuits. The former CEO's total compensation was > $130M. That sounds much more like a cost of doing business, and a great risk. Heck, fines are classified as an expense for taxes.

Fines are deductible in the US?

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#346
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither party is willing to solve homelessness by actually fucking housing people , and you're calling a homeless person a moron because their assessment of the two parties which, to avoid disturbing the existing economic order, mutually assent to that permanent state of crisis , doesn't include enough conciliatory language for you about how Orange Man Bad? Jesus Christ.

So to be clear, you are saying my tax money should be used to house the homeless, at exorbitant rates, while I cannot afford to buy house myself. I don't agree with this. I don't think homelessness can be solved by building more housing. Not sure if you have lived near homeless encampments before. If you know you know.

> Not sure if you have lived near homeless encampments before. If you know you know.

I'm happy to put it all out there so people can judge where I'm coming from.

I'm not an expert on homelessness, either in a scientific sense or a first-hand one. I have a few long-term friendships with people who have at various points been homeless for a year or more (some traveling, some local to an area). For a couple years, I worked near a few hotspots for where homeless people would gather during the day and/or sleep at night in the downtown of a relatively small city. In college, I often had neighborly chats with the local homeless people who regularly went through the dumpsters in my apartment complex's parking lot. We'd chat whenever we met while I walked out there to take out the trash or let my dog go potty. Shortly after I graduated, some friends (now moved away, employed, and safely housed up!) who were homeless (then as well as when I first met them) moved in with me for a few months when the weather around us was utterly brutal and physically dangerous for them. When it feels safe (and I'm not on my way to appointment), which is pretty often, I stick around to chat a bit when a stranger approaches me to beg or vent about their life or meet my dog or whatever, whether they seem likely to be homeless or not.

I have seen people violently raving to themselves or at passersby, and I have seen people fight viciously over spaces in which to sleep or beg. I've conversed with people who seemed very lucid and insightful in some ways and paranoid or mentally disorganized in others. I have nervously avoided some people who were so agitated and incoherent that it made me feel unsafe. But admittedly, I have not ever lived in a huge city which has truly massive encampments of desperate people.

Over the years, I have talked in depth with people, including presently and formerly homeless people, about housing, employment, physical health, mental health, capitalism, familial rejection/abandonment, drug addiction, etc., and how those things relate to homelessness.

Personally, I think homelessness is a problem that requires a multifaceted approach to make people physically and financially secure, and to embed them in meaningful personal and professional supporting relationships in their communities. I think that approaches to addressing homelessness falling under the broad banner of 'housing first' are humane, scientific, and workable. And to me, access to housing as a public good is indeed way more important than promoting individual ownership of single-family homes (fwiw, like you, I'm a renter who'd rather not be).

But my main point in that remark you're replying to is that it's useless and incredibly tone-deaf to scold someone who is currently struggling with that level of hardship and societal rejection/abandonment for not buying into the prevailing political system, or for having a perspective in which the important similarities between the two parties are more salient than their differences.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#347
post #139
post #9

I feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across from them at any time, expecting them to behave within normal social boundaries. Imagine a family with a new born, working 50+ hours at a physically demanding job, making $80k/yr combined, and then losing their home for no reason... and then being expected to…

I can’t even afford a home right now on a tech salary with sky high rent paying off my landlords 2% refi’d mortgage and student loans making it impossible at 6-7% fed interest rate hikes and inflated home prices after the insane COVID housing price bubble increase. I feel like life won’t start for another 5+ years for people like me, unless we gamble on being underwater on an inflated mortgage entering at the peak of…

Why do you think your life won't start until you buy a house? It's psychotic how much psychological weight people put on homeownership.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#348

Some good reading on Wells Fargo: https://www.theroot.com/ghetto-loans-for-mud-people-17908695... And a little story from my own experience. I was completely broke, and they slapped me with a big fine for not having enough money in my account. Then the teller smugly explained that I should be thankful because they could have fined me even more if they wanted to... I closed my account at that point. And for people who…

How in the hell is it legal to charge someone a fee for having a balance below $X?

To be fair, this is common among most of the big banks in the US. In my opinion, they do not cater for poor people and only make sense if you make $50k+ in transactions with them per year.

Case in point: I have a WellsFargo account. It was mostly dormant for 4-5 years with enough cash to avoid the penalty fee. In the last year, I used it for most of transactions (doing $10k+/month at some points). I got my credit card limit upgraded in a short amount of time (by around $5k). I was out of the US, and needed a new credit card. WellsFargo contacted me (got back to me) shipped a new card overnight overseas for free and waived the fees for the credit card and gave some credit/gift things.

I mean completely different experience?

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#349
post #121
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that they main point of ethics is providing a decision framework in the grey areas (if they were clear-cut, there would be no discussion). But that seems off-place here. It leads to the question about "when is it okay to steal?" There's an obvious "defense of necessity", but that doesn't stop at stealing someone's means to a living. If it's legal to steal food in a disaster, it doesn't matter if that food com…

It's important to discuss alternatives, teach problem solving, etc. But at the end of the day, teaching your kid to starve to death because stealing is always wrong is only going to erode their trust in you. This isn't something that I brought up with my kid, btw. He led the conversation, he was asking honest and innocent questions. Shutting the door in his face loses the opportunity to discuss nuanced ethics when he…

Nobody in America will starve to death unless they have a severe mental illness that prevents them from obtaining help that is otherwise accessible to them. The welfare system is not great, but it's not that bad. Food stamps and food banks are a thing.

Re: Wells Fargo to pay $3.7B for mistreating customers

#350
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I teach my kids that we shoot thieves dead as permitted by law. Let’s hope my kids never run into the kids who were taught “stealing is okay sometimes.” You steal, you rob, you assault, you die. It’s very simple.

Youre training your children to go do a mass shooting at Wells Fargo?
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