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Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

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Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#241

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

fleddr wrote: post #144
EarlKing wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried telling people before that the Fediverse doesn't scale, that decentralized solutions where nobody is paying for anything only work for flashcrowds (i.e. torrents), and ultimately this is going nowhere... but nobody wants to hear it. Everyone is sure that "torrents work, so this will work", neverminding the fact that the entire peer-to-peer ecosystem only works as long as there are people to seed, seeding c…

I will join you in your unpopular opinion. People have become so entitled that they can't appreciate the value they have in their hands today. Services like Twitter, Insta, FB, the like are in many ways incredible. We've forgotten all about that, but let's explore... They're pretty much always available. They scale endlessly without you noticing. They are fast. They have apps on every touch point. They preserve your…

> And for all of this, you don't pay a single penny. Yes, you'll get a few ads. You can even block those. An incredible amount of value offered, for near-zero costs.

Interesting how you think that the only costs could be financial.

Also, the presence of ads is only tangentially related to impact on privacy (yes, another huge cost).

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#242

Post by factormeta »

Zak wrote: post #205
pwinnski wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that key to the future of the fediverse is likely to be a more efficient piece of software than mastodon.

I expect very large servers will be commercially operated and running bespoke software. When Tumblr adds ActivityPub support, it will be the largest Fediverse instance by far.

hmmm didn't know Tumblr was planning on doing that. Any more info on this?

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#243

Post by cbozeman »

personjerry wrote: post #68
cbozeman wrote: post #8

Mastodon is not and will not ever be a replacement for Twitter. Twitter's too large and the people who had bleu checks before the $7.99 fee are addicted to attention, validation, and/or lording their bleu check status over others. That's why Mastodon won't replace it. Sure, a few small (relative to Twitter) alternative Mastodon instances will pop up, but no real challenger or contender for the throne.

By this logic, there should've been no new social networks after Twitter. I point to Tiktok as a contradiction. There are many more factors that your simplification ignores.

TikTok is not a social media website, it's a propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party.

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#244

Post by factormeta »

EarlKing wrote: post #12
323 wrote: post #5

It seems the Mastodon ecosystem has serious problems scaling. Most of the servers are closed to registrations, and we are just talking about a couple million new users over 2 months. What if 100 mil users want to move? Are we going to relive the Twitter history, which crashed every time Justin Bieber tweeted?

I've tried telling people before that the Fediverse doesn't scale, that decentralized solutions where nobody is paying for anything only work for flashcrowds (i.e. torrents), and ultimately this is going nowhere... but nobody wants to hear it. Everyone is sure that "torrents work, so this will work", neverminding the fact that the entire peer-to-peer ecosystem only works as long as there are people to seed, seeding c…

We ought to distinguish between Mastodon not scaling with Fediverse doesn't scale. I mean Email seems to be working relatively fine. It seems to all comes down to implementation of the protocol.

While I love writing Ruby (what Mastodon seems to be mostly is build with) it's syntax and cleanliness, it always had an issue with scaling.

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#245

Post by crazygringo »

lapcat wrote: post #240
crazygringo wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely missing the point, again. This isn't about "celebrities" (a word I never used), it's about popular people all around, like authors, journalists, and so on. And sure nobody is personally replying to all of their 10 million+ followers, but those 10 million+ followers do want to follow! And popular figures absolutely interact with and reply to tons of their followers quite frequently, that's the whole…

> This isn't about "celebrities" (a word I never used), it's about popular people all around, like authors, journalists, and so on. I don't want to quibble over terms. Celebrities, popular people, whatever you want to call them. > And popular figures absolutely interact with and reply to tons of their followers quite frequently, that's the whole point. And popular people have plenty of places where they can do that.…

> And popular people have plenty of places where they can do that. But why does everyplace have to be amenable to people with 10+ million followers?

This is where you're wrong. Twitter is the only place they can do that right now, where the audience is for that type of content. And people are positioning Mastodon as a better alternative to Twitter. So Mastodon needs to be amenable to people with 10+ million followers. That's just logic. Otherwise, people wouldn't be actively encouraging Twitter users to switch to Mastodon the way they are.

If you want a product that won't support popular accounts then that's fine, but that's clearly something different from Mastodon and the Fediverse then. Really, that's just what regular forums are for, and always have been. But Mastodon is not a forum.

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#246

Post by rvz »

radley wrote: post #175
rvz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really? Email scaled. Internet scaled. Decentralization is scalable. I don’t see any normal person self-hosting their own email service. Even if they did, good luck with handling spam. It can only viably scale to hundreds of millions with centralization; hence Gmail, Outlook, etc to reduce / limit the spam issue. Mastodon has the same mistakes as the other federated alternatives and has already proven to be unable…

> I don’t see any normal person self-hosting their own email service. But email didn't fail as a result. Just as you said, email services popped up. Just give it a little time.

> But email didn't fail as a result. Just as you said, email services popped up.

With centralization; hence the spyware, bans and spam prevention which only benefits the big centralized email services like Gmail, Outlook, etc.

Email was meant to be used as a decentralized protocol such that one can operate their own email service; but despite many here claiming to run their own, they gave up and many still won't. Even sending an email to a Gmail and Outlook addresses will just fail their spam filter test.

So it has been a failure for email without centralizated providers.

> Just give it a little time.

A 6 year federated experiment is not early days to see that a worse version of Twitter has already failed.

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#247

Post by lapcat »

crazygringo wrote: post #245
lapcat wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't about "celebrities" (a word I never used), it's about popular people all around, like authors, journalists, and so on. I don't want to quibble over terms. Celebrities, popular people, whatever you want to call them. > And popular figures absolutely interact with and reply to tons of their followers quite frequently, that's the whole point. And popular people have plenty of places where they can do that.…

> And popular people have plenty of places where they can do that. But why does everyplace have to be amenable to people with 10+ million followers? This is where you're wrong. Twitter is the only place they can do that right now, where the audience is for that type of content. And people are positioning Mastodon as a better alternative to Twitter. So Mastodon needs to be amenable to people with 10+ million followers…

> Twitter is the only place they can do that right now, where the audience is for that type of content.

Facebook? Instagram?

> And people are positioning Mastodon as a better alternative to Twitter.

People are positioning Mastodon as an alternative to Twitter that is not and cannot be controlled by Elon Musk. He is the reason people are leaving. So the last thing that Mastodon needs is to be amenable to people like Elon Musk.

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#248

Post by Zak »

factormeta wrote: post #242
Zak wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect very large servers will be commercially operated and running bespoke software. When Tumblr adds ActivityPub support, it will be the largest Fediverse instance by far.

hmmm didn't know Tumblr was planning on doing that. Any more info on this?

They announced it, oddly enough on Twitter. Techcrunch reported it, among others. Flickr is also considering it.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/21/tumblr-to-add-support-for-...

https://twitter.com/donmacaskill/status/1594945727255699457

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#249

Post by cactusplant7374 »

jacquesm wrote: post #195
cactusplant7374 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe it doesn't need to scale for people to ultimately have a much better experience It certainly needs less features. I'm sure quite a bit of Twitter's infrastructure is dedicated to ads and analytics.

That's a good observation, a federated, non-commercial messaging platform has a different tech footprint than one that needs to be monetized to the max to satisfy a bunch of shareholder and generate quarterly earning reports.

Plus, it's written in Rails. [0] I love Rails but they could switch to something else and tweak it to the extreme. There were very popular sites in the past (i.e. Slashdot) that didn't have many servers and were extremely performance tuned.

[0] https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon

Re: Server stats say movetodon.org reached a new record of 49k users yesterday

#250

Post by BoorishBears »

vorpalhex wrote: post #216
BoorishBears wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's not really a good faith reply to their point is it? The problem presented wasn't how you pay, it's the fact that you pay and take on moderation duties and curation. Getting reimbursed by friends doesn't change that, and if anything it convolutes the latter part of the problem by leaving the door open to some awkward dynamics. A centralized group chat that needs funding to stay alive sounds like a pretty awf…

All things require funding. There are no exceptions. My discord guild also requires time and money. So it goes.

I don't think you have any reply to the topic being discussed.

The point is that people went from an experience where they didn't take money out of their pocket every month unless they wanted to, and didn't have to curate for others or moderate for others.

I pay for a game server and won't accept a dime from my friends for it not so I can feel like king of some fiefdom, but so we can enjoy a game amongst ourselves.

If moderation is the part of that experience that you're cherishing, it's no wonder you can't relate to the complaints others have.

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