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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#251

Post by t_tsonev »

mkhpalm wrote: post #190
castratikron wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of ICE cars won't even start at 40 below. Those cases should count as zero mile range

To be fair, it typically costs about $50 for a block heater which allows you to start below 40 degrees in an ICE. Whats the solution for EV?

EVs will maintain the battery temperature if plugged in, usually at 0C.

Even if not plugged-in they'll try to keep the battery above temperatures that may be damaging, e.g. -30C. This only works for a sufficiently charged battery.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#252

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

[deleted]

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#253

Post by Scoundreller »

SoftTalker wrote: post #247
bagels wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value is not having to wear all that gear while driving, and just comfort generally. Living in the bay area it's nice that the Teslas have this capability to warm the interior from 55 to 70 before I get in the car. It means I can leave the house in a t shirt in the morning.

If you're driving around in subzero weather without a coat, gloves, and preferably a few blankets in the car, you're asking for more trouble than I am.

You can have them in there, but not wear them!

It’s kinda a pain to drive with a big puffy jacket, especially once the cabin gets warm.

I’m often in this position: car is in underground car park that sits above zero (Celsius) when it’s far colder outside, so I hand-carry my jacket and keep the vent off until the engine heats up.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#254

Post by abalone »

colordrops wrote: post #178
abalone wrote: post #158

[flagged]

What are you talking about? These articles have nothing to do with the topic.

It's literally about EV range loss in the winter. The journalist put Tesla's advertising to the test and took a drive up the east coast. Experienced massive range loss and had to sacrifice speed and heating. Was not instructed to plug in overnight. When he woke up he was dangerously low and only trickle charging was available at his destination in the country, which couldn't help him.

Musk tried to do damage control by attacking his reputation. For example he claimed "the data showed" the NYT journalist circled one of the charger stops to run down the battery on purpose to make a juicier story. People ate it up. But turns out he just had a little trouble finding the charger in the dark.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#255

Post by organsnyder »

pandaman wrote: post #131
Someone1234 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs upsides and downsides should be considered without it needing to be a comparison to ICE. But, yes, running the heater will use fuel. In this case EVs with "250 miles" range are losing 30%~ of that range for three months of the year and a further 20% over the first three years of their life, making them reliably closer to a 140-mile vehicle. People who are planning round-trip travel or commuting need to know this…

> But, yes, running the heater will use fuel I imagine it is so on some air-cooled cars (VW "Beetle", old 911 etc), but on most cars the cabin is heated off the engine's cooling system and does not require additional fuel, so it technically will "use fuel" but no more than the normal operation of the car.

OEM aircooled VW heat came from air heat exchangers that took extracted heat from the exhaust gas. Worked terribly when new, and even worse when rust hit: the channels carrying the air from the rear to the front of the vehicle were among the first parts of the body to rust out (at least in Beetles), and if any perforations developed in the heat exchangers you'd get CO going into the cabin.

There were aftermarket gasoline heaters available, which is probably what you're thinking of.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#256

Post by itsoktocry »

PaulBGD_ wrote: post #103
thinking4real wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone’s repeating they find this strange. Is it really strange? I’ve been excited for EVs all my life. But there’s a certain level of propaganda that’s come with them. Explicitly talking about their downsides seems to be taboo. Like you’ll get downvoated or banned on many social media platforms for doing it.

I think it’s because most people who are pro electric understand their downsides, and usually the downsides are presented as dismissal (eg why buy an electric, you have to stop when you’re traveling cross country.) It’s kind of a boring topic unless there’s something new to discuss.

This is the exact opposite of my experience, on many, many car related forums.

EVs are presented as a panacea, doing everything an ICE can do, only better. It's not true. There are tradeoffs.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#257

Post by itsoktocry »

criley2 wrote: post #135
thinking4real wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone’s repeating they find this strange. Is it really strange? I’ve been excited for EVs all my life. But there’s a certain level of propaganda that’s come with them. Explicitly talking about their downsides seems to be taboo. Like you’ll get downvoated or banned on many social media platforms for doing it.

Quite the opposite, I find every thread about them (including this one) to be entire dominated by the naysayers who claim they are repressed but in actuality are the loudest and most visible voices. It's a bit ironic you claim "propaganda" and "downvotes".... in the most upvoted, top thread on this post, a thread which is highly skeptical/negative to EV. These days I find it difficult to find real-world data or anecd…

Because nearly every article posted on HackerNews comes from a website whose entire purpose is to promote electric vehicles. The "naysayers" in the comments offer a balancing view.

You'll note it's RARE that the article is negative towards EVs, only the comments. Because it's pro-EV, all the time.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#259

Post by itsoktocry »

joshgachnang wrote: post #48
davedx wrote: post #3

Yup my wife just almost got stranded in her Mach-e. Fantastic car but cold weather battery is noticeably worse than our Model 3’s. Something to keep in mind.

Ford's decision to forgo a heat pump is a real head scratcher. Sad the Lightning didn't make the page, because I'm very interested how much it affects it.

Hoovies Garage tested the Lightning, and its towing capacity and cold weather performance were both terrible. I don't think EV trucks are ready for the big time yet.

https://youtu.be/j8gH52gKejE

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#260

Post by grecy »

donatj wrote: post #42

As a Minnesotan with an unheated detached garage, I’d be very interested to know about -40°F performance. We get a couple of those days every year. I have been looking at my next car potentially being an EV and am really curious about the extremes.

> We get a couple of those days every year

I'm always curious about things like this.

Did you insulate your house for the -40 days? Did you buy your winter coat and gloves based on -40 days? Did you install a block heater, battery blanket and oil pan heater in your ICE car for those -40 days?

I'm betting you didn't, because you know they only happen a couple of times a year, and it's not worth spending all the money and effort for something that happens so rarely. What you have for the -20 and -30 days is good enough for the (very) occasional -40.

The same is true for your EV.

(FWIW: I lived just above 60 degrees north for 4 years. I rode my bike to work every day. For many months it was often colder than -30, and at least a month a year it was colder than -40.)

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