Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 332 posts

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#131

Post by pandaman »

Someone1234 wrote: post #43
cameronh90 wrote: post #30

My fuel economy drops about 20% on my petrol car in cold weather city driving. I don't know what causes the difference, perhaps waiting for the car to warm up and windows to defrost.

EVs upsides and downsides should be considered without it needing to be a comparison to ICE. But, yes, running the heater will use fuel. In this case EVs with "250 miles" range are losing 30%~ of that range for three months of the year and a further 20% over the first three years of their life, making them reliably closer to a 140-mile vehicle. People who are planning round-trip travel or commuting need to know this…

> But, yes, running the heater will use fuel

I imagine it is so on some air-cooled cars (VW "Beetle", old 911 etc), but on most cars the cabin is heated off the engine's cooling system and does not require additional fuel, so it technically will "use fuel" but no more than the normal operation of the car.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#133

Post by dymk »

clysm wrote: post #89
joshgachnang wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford's decision to forgo a heat pump is a real head scratcher. Sad the Lightning didn't make the page, because I'm very interested how much it affects it.

My 2019 Model 3 doesn't have a heat pump either.

Yeah, but it's 2022 now, and the Model 3 has a heat pump. It is a head-scratcher why Ford didn't put one in their 2022 flagship EV.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#134

Post by frosted-flakes »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #81
killjoywashere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, you don't loose range to heating in an ICE engine. The heater is just a secondary radiator, so it actually improves engine efficiency. Old trick for driving an under-powered car over the Rockies in the summer: open the windows and turn the heater on.

You don't lose "range" on an ICE vehicle but you definitely lose mileage efficiency. But ICE vehicles also just throw off insane amounts of wasted energy in the form of heat all year long and in the winter some of it gets converted into comfort. People are just accustomed to throwing that money away, I guess.

Not all of them do. My diesel VW struggles to maintain coolant temperature in really cold weather, and even in summer the radiator fans almost never turn on unless the AC is used. When it's -25C out it takes 10-15 minutes before I get full heat out of the vents (hooray for heated seats), and if I pull up to a stop light with the heater on the coolant temperature immediately starts to drop. And there's nothing wrong with my car; they're all like that. And the fuel efficiency reflects it: I normally get about 5 L/100 km (46 mpG).

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#135

Post by criley2 »

thinking4real wrote: post #100
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

Everyone’s repeating they find this strange. Is it really strange? I’ve been excited for EVs all my life. But there’s a certain level of propaganda that’s come with them. Explicitly talking about their downsides seems to be taboo. Like you’ll get downvoated or banned on many social media platforms for doing it.

Quite the opposite, I find every thread about them (including this one) to be entire dominated by the naysayers who claim they are repressed but in actuality are the loudest and most visible voices.

It's a bit ironic you claim "propaganda" and "downvotes".... in the most upvoted, top thread on this post, a thread which is highly skeptical/negative to EV.

These days I find it difficult to find real-world data or anecdotes from EV real owners amongst the tidal wave of gasoline vehicle operators predicting how terrible an EV would be (and justifying their ego/decision to not buy one).

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#136

Post by anthomtb »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #79
castratikron wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of ICE cars won't even start at 40 below. Those cases should count as zero mile range

Those can be warmed up with a g̶a̶s̶o̶l̶i̶n̶e blowtorch. Or you can fit your car with an alarm system that auto starts the engine throughout the night to keep it warm. That's what pretty much everyone is doing where I'm from (-25°C is a pretty typical winter temperature here, with drops down to -40-45°C for a couple weeks each winter). After that you get tolerable gas mileage. I don't drive much, but from my friends'…

I thought electric block heaters were common in cold climates. Is the blow torch a last resort if you cannot park your car in range of an outlet?

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#137

Post by zackkitzmiller »

Reason077 wrote: post #95
barbariangrunge wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#139

Post by saltcured »

Reason077 wrote: post #101
Grim-444 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At even colder temps than that EV batteries start having even more problems, for example they become permanently damaged if charged at freezing temps or below, so even more energy has to be used to heat the batteries for the batteries to be able to accept a charge.

Easily mitigated by good charging practices (eg: charge when you finish a drive and the car/battery is still warm, not after leaving it in the cold overnight)

Wouldn't that also mean it has to be heated before driving, or regenerative braking is also off the table?

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#140

Post by kube-system »

Hamuko wrote: post #53
St-Clock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter tire (if you have them) and heating are the likely culprits!

Heating shouldn't take any fuel efficiency in a petrol-powered car since the heat is (usually) just a by-product of the engine's inefficiencies.

Letting the vehicle idle in the driveway while the windshield defrosts will decrease fuel mileage, because the engine runs for longer.
Post reply on HN