Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 332 posts

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#81

Post by cmrdporcupine »

killjoywashere wrote: post #64
markus_zhang wrote: post #46

Wait, judging from some comments people actually take heating and winter tires into consideration when calculating differences in mileage? But I have to disagree. You have to use heating and winter tires during winter. The correct calculation should be take that out first and then compare the numbers. For example if heating and winter tires take say 100 miles, full mileage says 500, but car stops around 300 miles, th…

Uh, you don't loose range to heating in an ICE engine. The heater is just a secondary radiator, so it actually improves engine efficiency. Old trick for driving an under-powered car over the Rockies in the summer: open the windows and turn the heater on.

You don't lose "range" on an ICE vehicle but you definitely lose mileage efficiency. But ICE vehicles also just throw off insane amounts of wasted energy in the form of heat all year long and in the winter some of it gets converted into comfort.

People are just accustomed to throwing that money away, I guess.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#82

Post by xyzzyz »

anamexis wrote: post #55
xyzzyz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One interesting thing that points out is that internal combustion engines are also about 15% less efficient at cold temperatures. They are less efficient at cold engine temperatures, but more efficient at cold air temperatures. This means that in cold winter, once the engine warms up (which might not take place on short routes), internal combustion engines are more efficient than in summer.

That may well be, but it seems like the 15% is a high-level number that takes a lot of factors into account, such as power used by heating accessories, and the fact that cold air is denser (more air resistance). https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/coldweather.shtml My original wording was inaccurate, as it's more about ICE-powered vehicles than the engines themselves.

That sounds reasonable: note that I said that on short routes the engine might not have a chance to warm up.

Your source, however, quoted this 15% figure for city driving, I think that’s worth stressing as well. I wonder if they have any data for highway driving. I’m too lazy to Google, though.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#83

Post by dawnerd »

jmclnx wrote: post #63
donatj wrote: post #42

As a Minnesotan with an unheated detached garage, I’d be very interested to know about -40°F performance. We get a couple of those days every year. I have been looking at my next car potentially being an EV and am really curious about the extremes.

I would not buy an EV where you are. Also I wonder how fast it will charge when it is very cold outside. I heard Toyota has some kind of hydrogen car, maybe that would be better ? I live in the north and I will not by an EV until the range reaches Gas Autos when the Temp is below 0F with the heat blasting. Getting caught in the cold without fuel is not good. And I wonder if Wind Chill can decrease range even more. I…

Plenty of people own EVs in extreme cold and get by just fine. Look at Norway, EVs are incredibly common there and they’re regularly driven to the far north without much fanfare. https://www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland/videos

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#84

Post by dkqmduems »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #75
barbariangrunge wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

Your car doesn't feel wind chill. I drive an EV in Canadian winter all the time. Not at all an issue. Range loss is a thing but it's not like the car stops working. In fact it starts more reliably and heats up more quickly for me. And I start mine remotely while it's still plugged in, so the cabin is warm and ready to go without wasting battery energy. And can do this safely in the garage without concerns of carbon m…

Air velocity certainly impacts heat transfer.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#85

Post by leereeves »

wolfram74 wrote: post #78
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your car doesn't feel wind chill. I drive an EV in Canadian winter all the time. Not at all an issue. Range loss is a thing but it's not like the car stops working. In fact it starts more reliably and heats up more quickly for me. And I start mine remotely while it's still plugged in, so the cabin is warm and ready to go without wasting battery energy. And can do this safely in the garage without concerns of carbon m…

Might be more accurate to describe it as cars generate more windchill from driving than the weather station is likely to experience from wind?

Doesn't the cold have the greatest impact when the car isn't moving, because the car warms itself while driving?

And the reported wind chill matters when the car isn't moving.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#86

Post by petee »

killjoywashere wrote: post #64
markus_zhang wrote: post #46

Wait, judging from some comments people actually take heating and winter tires into consideration when calculating differences in mileage? But I have to disagree. You have to use heating and winter tires during winter. The correct calculation should be take that out first and then compare the numbers. For example if heating and winter tires take say 100 miles, full mileage says 500, but car stops around 300 miles, th…

Uh, you don't loose range to heating in an ICE engine. The heater is just a secondary radiator, so it actually improves engine efficiency. Old trick for driving an under-powered car over the Rockies in the summer: open the windows and turn the heater on.

Fun history, the '60s Corvair had an optional fuel-fired heater, which my dad swore by as a great holdover in the winter while waiting for the engine to warm up.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#87

Post by nonethewiser »

And this is only comparing 70 degrees to 32. Whereas normal temps in many northern states (not to mention Canada) are going to be closer to 0. Not to mention lows that dip way below 0. What is an EV's range at -15?

It's hard to imagine EVs fulfilling more than a niche for many. EVs probably look reasonably to people with money in urban areas but that's a minority of people.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#88

Post by twobitshifter »

I can’t decide on my next car

- Live in cold village on US east coast

- ICE might be going obsolete

- BEVs are improving quickly so what I buy might be superseded soon - feels almost like the early days of smartphones.

- Gas prices are very high

- Used and new car prices are unreasonably high

- There’s not enough chargers to support the number of EVs being driven in my area leading to long waits.

- I could charge at home, but don’t have a garage

- My car now is 8 years old but has 150k miles.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#89

Post by clysm »

joshgachnang wrote: post #48
davedx wrote: post #3

Yup my wife just almost got stranded in her Mach-e. Fantastic car but cold weather battery is noticeably worse than our Model 3’s. Something to keep in mind.

Ford's decision to forgo a heat pump is a real head scratcher. Sad the Lightning didn't make the page, because I'm very interested how much it affects it.

My 2019 Model 3 doesn't have a heat pump either.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#90

Post by metadat »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #79
castratikron wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of ICE cars won't even start at 40 below. Those cases should count as zero mile range

Those can be warmed up with a g̶a̶s̶o̶l̶i̶n̶e blowtorch. Or you can fit your car with an alarm system that auto starts the engine throughout the night to keep it warm. That's what pretty much everyone is doing where I'm from (-25°C is a pretty typical winter temperature here, with drops down to -40-45°C for a couple weeks each winter). After that you get tolerable gas mileage. I don't drive much, but from my friends'…

What is a gasoline torch? Would blowtorching a vehicle be detrimental and destructive to it?
Post reply on HN