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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#211

Post by hunter2_ »

Epa095 wrote: post #208
crazygringo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're only useful as a relatively subjective measure for people who aren't dressed properly. That's a bizarre thing to say when to dress properly, you need to know the wind chill. If it's 25°F out no wind, vs. 25°F out but it's 5°F with wind chill, that's an entire additional layer I need to put on during my morning walk. Wind chill is a very accurate measure for judging what to wear. How do you think it's not ac…

But if you only know the windchill temperature, how do you dress? If it is 10f with wind chill, do you prep for wind or not? I want to know temperature and windspeed, and then I know how many layers of wool I need (from the temperature) and how windproof I need to dress (from the windspeed).

Interesting point: if we need to know two things, one of them being air temperature and the other being [windspeed or windchill], the second thing ought to be whichever delivers more overall value.

If you can figure out how to dress based on either one equally well, then it comes down to what else can be gleaned from windspeed vs from windchill. I would tend to agree that windspeed is more valuable, as it's better at readily telling you if an activity you're planning to do, which is only possible under certain windspeeds (like using a tent or something), will be doable.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#212

Post by hunter2_ »

nkurz wrote: post #126
leereeves wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the cold have the greatest impact when the car isn't moving, because the car warms itself while driving? And the reported wind chill matters when the car isn't moving.

> And the reported wind chill matters when the car isn't moving. It matters in the sense that a parked car in the wind will cool to ambient temperature faster than it would when the air is still, but not in the sense that it will ever get colder than the actual still-air temperature. Wind chill affects rate of cooling, but (in the absence of evaporation) not the actual low temperature that is reached. Since the conce…

> Since the concern with loss of range or or starting capacity usually has to do with how the batteries perform at at extremely low temperatures

Isn't heating the cabin also a major component of the concern? That's where heating the cabin on grid power would help get some range back (assuming the battery is fully charged; if it's mid-charge then you're just shifting the grid power from charging to heating so the range will continue to suffer).

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#213

Post by enduser »

nightski wrote: post #203
zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Block heaters don't heat the cab, so it's still uncomfortable

I wasn't claiming that they did. The block heater keeps the engine warm to allow for easy remote start.

An EV can do both, without emissions, from wall power.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#214

Post by hunter2_ »

tantony wrote: post #197
remarkEon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say that (am in Minnesota for Christmas holiday, where it’s currently 1°). It gets much colder than 20°F for extended periods in the Midwest. Is there just not a large enough sample of EV driving in those temperatures to extend the graph?

I have owned a Model 3 in Iowa while living in an apartment with no garage. This was at the beginning of the Covid lockdown where it stayed unused for extended periods of time. The battery was cold-soaked in temps below 20F. Whenever I drove the car, I had almost zero regen-braking, reduced acceleration and the range was decreased by about 30%. For short commutes, that would persist throughout. But whenever I went on…

> almost zero regen-braking

This is interesting. I wonder if large capacitors could alleviate this: somewhere to quickly dump the regen energy, and charge the battery with it at some slow rate equivalent to the long-term average regen load. Not only would it help in cold situations where the battery can't be charged quickly, but also situations where the battery would be healthier if not charged quickly, which is always.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#215

Post by mkhpalm »

noahtallen wrote: post #193
mkhpalm wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it typically costs about $50 for a block heater which allows you to start below 40 degrees in an ICE. Whats the solution for EV?

I believe they “just work.” Electric motors don’t stop working at low temps. I think it’s mostly just range that’s impacted since EVs can’t use the inefficient part of an ICE (e.g. energy produced by gas not captured by the powertrain) for heat, so they have to run heat pumps. (Along with battery chemistry not working as well in low temps)

Depending on the EV you you void the battery warranty keeping it in extreme temperatures like 40 below. And it affects the range.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#217

Post by Hamuko »

kube-system wrote: post #140
Hamuko wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating shouldn't take any fuel efficiency in a petrol-powered car since the heat is (usually) just a by-product of the engine's inefficiencies.

Letting the vehicle idle in the driveway while the windshield defrosts will decrease fuel mileage, because the engine runs for longer.

It's not really the fault of "heating" that you're idling your car unnecessarily. I'm definitely not idling my car to defrost my windshield, as I'll most likely pre-heat my car, or if I don't, I'll scrape the frost off.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#218

Post by [deleted] »

tantony wrote: post #197
remarkEon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say that (am in Minnesota for Christmas holiday, where it’s currently 1°). It gets much colder than 20°F for extended periods in the Midwest. Is there just not a large enough sample of EV driving in those temperatures to extend the graph?

I have owned a Model 3 in Iowa while living in an apartment with no garage. This was at the beginning of the Covid lockdown where it stayed unused for extended periods of time. The battery was cold-soaked in temps below 20F. Whenever I drove the car, I had almost zero regen-braking, reduced acceleration and the range was decreased by about 30%. For short commutes, that would persist throughout. But whenever I went on…

[deleted]

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#219

Post by [deleted] »

metadat wrote: post #169
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I probably should have looked in the dictionary before posting that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowtorch It's pretty dangerous, burns down quite a few cars each year, but people don't care or have no other options. I think during the last couple of years there were two fires near my house alone.

Do people run the open-flame torch it in the room where the vehicle is (to hear the air)? What about a plug-in solution such as a space heater?

[deleted]

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#220

Post by anecdotal1 »

zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137
Reason077 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

Audis don't come with it because it's illegal in Germany according to my old neighbor so he always had to install an aftermarket one...
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