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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#161

Post by seanmcdirmid »

dawnerd wrote: post #83
jmclnx wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not buy an EV where you are. Also I wonder how fast it will charge when it is very cold outside. I heard Toyota has some kind of hydrogen car, maybe that would be better ? I live in the north and I will not by an EV until the range reaches Gas Autos when the Temp is below 0F with the heat blasting. Getting caught in the cold without fuel is not good. And I wonder if Wind Chill can decrease range even more. I…

Plenty of people own EVs in extreme cold and get by just fine. Look at Norway, EVs are incredibly common there and they’re regularly driven to the far north without much fanfare. https://www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland/videos

Populated Norway actually isn’t that cold. The average high/low for their coldest month is 0C/-5C. In contrast Seattle is 8C/2C. I’m curious how EVs are doing in a city like Harbin where it is -24C/-13C.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#162

Post by nightski »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #153
zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

A big difference is that while an EV is sitting plugged in, it can heat itself from wall power, rather than burning gas to do it.

It's called a block heater and they have been in use for many decades in cold climates.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#163

Post by galangalalgol »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #147

As a 7+ year driver of a pure electric BMW i3, not the range extender version, in a HOT climate its last four years, far more overlooked is the degeneration of battery capacity when run and charged in heat. I mean 40+ Celsius summers have been brutal on the battery which is a cooled pack. Possibly this has improved a ton since our i3 was the original model year, and BMW replaced the original pack and sent it back to…

The nissan leaf demonstrated this problem in Phoenix immediately upon release, it is a known thing. Tesla seems to take yhe cooling loop very seriously. The batteries in the early model s had some issues but after that they seem to asymptote at 20% range loss and stay there. At least so far. I don't know who else takes cooling that seriously. I'd look for liquid cooling but also phase change hooked into the ac system, as liquid and a radiator only gets you down to ambient, which is too hot in an increasingly large number of locations much of the year.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#164

Post by ok123456 »

twobitshifter wrote: post #88

I can’t decide on my next car - Live in cold village on US east coast - ICE might be going obsolete - BEVs are improving quickly so what I buy might be superseded soon - feels almost like the early days of smartphones. - Gas prices are very high - Used and new car prices are unreasonably high - There’s not enough chargers to support the number of EVs being driven in my area leading to long waits. - I could charge at…

The ICE will not be "going obsolete." There's no real replacement and there won't be just because of the underlying physics.

There are too may drawbacks with EVs that they'll never be for everyone and everywhere.

If your 150k mile car is a reliable brand (i.e., Honda or Toyota), you probably have another 150k miles on it.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#165

Post by fsh »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #73
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

There is no such thing as windchill for a car.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#166

Post by ChrisClark »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #73
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

In the summer, I can drive from Calgary to Edmonton without stopping to charge. I did one trip at -40 (without windchill) and I had to charge in Red Deer for about 30 minutes to make it.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#167

Post by saltcured »

Forget driving range... how do EVs cope with long term parking, and how much does the winter affect that? I have become acutely aware that some car designers have not really considered "must work after parking" as a feature of a car. I had not thought much about it, but some ICE or HEV cars cannot maintain their basic (non-traction) battery unless driven several times per week at minimum.

I had not thought about this much before the pandemic disrupted prior commute and travel patterns. But now, I think it is absurd that a parked car can ruin a perfectly good battery in a matter of weeks and maroon the occasional motorist. I can't understand how a marketplace allowed these designs to prosper. You shouldn't need to put a wrench to the battery terminals to park a car.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#168

Post by reaperducer »

abalone wrote: post #158

[flagged]

Not just Elon, but also the Muskovites who ape him.

In Tesla's early days, I asked on HN and another online forum if cold weather affected range, and was soundly mocked for even asking the question.

It made sense to me. Heater uses electricity. Moving uses electricity. Using heater means less electricity for moving. But, no. I was entirely wrong because Musk has discovered the magic combination of pixie dust and unicorn farts that negate cold, or heat, as a factor.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#169

Post by metadat »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #102
metadat wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a gasoline torch? Would blowtorching a vehicle be detrimental and destructive to it?

Yeah, I probably should have looked in the dictionary before posting that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowtorch It's pretty dangerous, burns down quite a few cars each year, but people don't care or have no other options. I think during the last couple of years there were two fires near my house alone.

Do people run the open-flame torch it in the room where the vehicle is (to hear the air)? What about a plug-in solution such as a space heater?

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#170

Post by frosted-flakes »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #154
frosted-flakes wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all of them do. My diesel VW struggles to maintain coolant temperature in really cold weather, and even in summer the radiator fans almost never turn on unless the AC is used. When it's -25C out it takes 10-15 minutes before I get full heat out of the vents (hooray for heated seats), and if I pull up to a stop light with the heater on the coolant temperature immediately starts to drop. And there's nothing wrong w…

yeah I recall my old VW Jetta TDI taking longer than I thought it should to heat up in the winter. Which I always found strange considering the amount of BTUs in diesel and how well my (at the time) diesel oil furnace was at heating up my house right away and also how small the cabin was. In any case, my Chevy Volt heats up the cabin pretty fast. Though once it gets below -10C the stupid thing kicks on the ICE even t…

All those BTUs get turned into motion, not heat.
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