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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#171

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #147

As a 7+ year driver of a pure electric BMW i3, not the range extender version, in a HOT climate its last four years, far more overlooked is the degeneration of battery capacity when run and charged in heat. I mean 40+ Celsius summers have been brutal on the battery which is a cooled pack. Possibly this has improved a ton since our i3 was the original model year, and BMW replaced the original pack and sent it back to…

The original LEAF was also susceptible to heat degredation as it was purely air cooling the pack. People who lived in places like Arizona had issues.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#172

Post by aaronax »

fsh wrote: post #165
barbariangrunge wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

There is no such thing as windchill for a car.

Generally true, but could be relevant for calculating heat loss rates of cabin or battery. Only when parked I guess, as air velocity due to driving would typically be much greater.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#173

Post by LeifCarrotson »

zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137
Reason077 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

Running the engine is a very inefficient way to heat the oil (sometimes requiring a plug-in _electric_ engine block heater if it's so cold the bearings and rings would be insufficiently lubricated to start), and doesn't work at all to warm up a gelled tank of diesel. It's ridiculously inefficient to try to cool the cabin.

EV heating and cooling is far superior to warming up a gas vehicle.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#174

Post by jeffreyrogers »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #104
barbariangrunge wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?

An EV battery is entirely different than a lead acid accessory battery in a combustion car. It has a whole system dedicated to maintaining its temperature within ideal ranges. They don't die in cold weather. I've never heard of one doing so. The only issue with cold weather is reduced range. So just make sure you buy one with a battery big enough to handle your commute even with reduced range in cold. Which is pretty…

Phones and laptops get worse battery performance in cold weather and use similar batteries to EVs.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#175

Post by galangalalgol »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #76
donatj wrote: post #42

As a Minnesotan with an unheated detached garage, I’d be very interested to know about -40°F performance. We get a couple of those days every year. I have been looking at my next car potentially being an EV and am really curious about the extremes.

You'll be fine if you pick a quality EV that does proper battery temperature maintenance. I've been driving a Volt here in Ontario for years no issues. GM & Tesla have put proper engineering into this. Nissan has notoriously cut costs on battery cooling/heating in ways that have led to shortened battery life. Others, your mileage may vary (literally)

Is there a comparison somewhere of the cooling used by different EVs and PHEVs? I know tesla does it right but there is rarely enough information provided by manufacturers to tell if they can take the pack temp below ambient or not. It is by far my largest concern in selecting my next vehicle. I want to wait for the cyber truck, but I am vonsidering the pacifica PHEV

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#176

Post by drewg123 »

My Tesla Model X 100D looses 25-40% of range in the winter (and by "winter, I mean 20-50F, as I live in Virginia). This is partially due to resistance heating, and the range is better if you're somehow able to live with keeping the heat off and using just the steering wheel and seat heaters.

However, one thing I've never gotten used to is just how cold my feet get in the winter in this car. Even with the heat at full blast, the footwells are quite cold. This is a very different experience from most ICE cars I've owned, where engine heat blows directly on your feet and keeps them toasty.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#177

Post by frosted-flakes »

twobitshifter wrote: post #157
frosted-flakes wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your current car is only a few years old and has relatively low mileage, so the best course of action is obviously to keep driving it. Unless there's something seriously wrong with it. Otherwise, buy a used car.

It’s a Volkswagen not a Toyota and many parts have design lifetimes of 150-200k. Since it’s the only car for my wife and I, I don’t want to end up in a situation where it’s in the shop all the time. I do plan on hanging on to it after getting another car.

My VW has well over half a million kilometres. Of course I did just have to change the cylinder head gasket, but that's because it's tuned and unknownbenownst to me had sticky turbo vanes for years, causing it to overboost significantly. Unmodified engines of this type (diesel TDI) often reach 700 thousand km with only normal maintenance.

But if it's your only car and you're not mechanically-inclined I get always wanting to have a brand new car for the reliability.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#179

Post by rosnd »

wil421 wrote: post #143
zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

Lots of people park in garages where it’s not an option.

My gas powered Mercedes heats up just fine without starting the engine.

This has been a common feature for like ... idk, 20 years? I think even the 80s W214 had this option, although that used a separate burner system instead of batteries.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#180

Post by aaronax »

anthomtb wrote: post #136
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can be warmed up with a g̶a̶s̶o̶l̶i̶n̶e blowtorch. Or you can fit your car with an alarm system that auto starts the engine throughout the night to keep it warm. That's what pretty much everyone is doing where I'm from (-25°C is a pretty typical winter temperature here, with drops down to -40-45°C for a couple weeks each winter). After that you get tolerable gas mileage. I don't drive much, but from my friends'…

I thought electric block heaters were common in cold climates. Is the blow torch a last resort if you cannot park your car in range of an outlet?

They seem much less common than they used to be. More people have garages, and modern vehicles will easily start down to - 15F maybe.

I would much rather have a battery jump pack since a weak battery is the most likely problem. Though those are weak in the cold too...

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