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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#101

Post by Reason077 »

Grim-444 wrote: post #59
Sakos wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figure 20F is just sufficient to prove their thesis (effects of cold on EV cars). I don't think it purports to be an all-encompassing study, especially since there are variables like cabin heating which can have significant effects on range in lower temperatures.

At even colder temps than that EV batteries start having even more problems, for example they become permanently damaged if charged at freezing temps or below, so even more energy has to be used to heat the batteries for the batteries to be able to accept a charge.

Easily mitigated by good charging practices (eg: charge when you finish a drive and the car/battery is still warm, not after leaving it in the cold overnight)

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#102

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

metadat wrote: post #90
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can be warmed up with a g̶a̶s̶o̶l̶i̶n̶e blowtorch. Or you can fit your car with an alarm system that auto starts the engine throughout the night to keep it warm. That's what pretty much everyone is doing where I'm from (-25°C is a pretty typical winter temperature here, with drops down to -40-45°C for a couple weeks each winter). After that you get tolerable gas mileage. I don't drive much, but from my friends'…

What is a gasoline torch? Would blowtorching a vehicle be detrimental and destructive to it?

Yeah, I probably should have looked in the dictionary before posting that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowtorch

It's pretty dangerous, burns down quite a few cars each year, but people don't care or have no other options. I think during the last couple of years there were two fires near my house alone.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#103

Post by PaulBGD_ »

thinking4real wrote: post #100
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

Everyone’s repeating they find this strange. Is it really strange? I’ve been excited for EVs all my life. But there’s a certain level of propaganda that’s come with them. Explicitly talking about their downsides seems to be taboo. Like you’ll get downvoated or banned on many social media platforms for doing it.

I think it’s because most people who are pro electric understand their downsides, and usually the downsides are presented as dismissal (eg why buy an electric, you have to stop when you’re traveling cross country.) It’s kind of a boring topic unless there’s something new to discuss.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#104

Post by cmrdporcupine »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #99
Reason077 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?

An EV battery is entirely different than a lead acid accessory battery in a combustion car.

It has a whole system dedicated to maintaining its temperature within ideal ranges.

They don't die in cold weather. I've never heard of one doing so.

The only issue with cold weather is reduced range. So just make sure you buy one with a battery big enough to handle your commute even with reduced range in cold. Which is pretty much all of them these days, honestly.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#106

Post by Reason077 »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #99
Reason077 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?

Li-ion batteries perform better at low temperatures than Lead-acid. The traction battery is also a lot bigger so it retains heat for much longer. And in some models, the car's battery management software can kick in some heating to prevent it from getting excessively cold if necessary.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#107

Post by 1970-01-01 »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #26

Keep in mind ICEs lose range in winter as well. I used to hypermile on occasion and I could get 500 miles on a tank in summer but 350-400 in winter. The air is more dense, the tires are probably less efficient, the wind is stronger, and cold start efficiency is reduced.

This does not translate well to EVs as they have nothing to start and don't use air to move.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#108

Post by Retric »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #99
Reason077 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?

It depends on how cold you are talking about. Lead acid batteries run into issues, but portable jump starter is a cheap and easy solution for that. However, if your talking -40C both oil and fuel both run into problems with ultra low temperatures so people need to use heating blankets.

The nice thing about EV’s is you can have them warmup while plugged in an unheated parking space. The bad thing is cars are poorly insulated so at ultra low temperatures they need to use a lot of energy to keep warm.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#109

Post by falcolas »

twobitshifter wrote: post #88

I can’t decide on my next car - Live in cold village on US east coast - ICE might be going obsolete - BEVs are improving quickly so what I buy might be superseded soon - feels almost like the early days of smartphones. - Gas prices are very high - Used and new car prices are unreasonably high - There’s not enough chargers to support the number of EVs being driven in my area leading to long waits. - I could charge at…

FWIW, my own investigations into this from a location that is currently 0:

I’m going with a plug-in hybrid.

There are precious few charging stations in the Midwest (especially those affiliated with the Subaru/Toyota brands), and a lot of miles between cities. A majority of my driving is inside the 45 mile range so the batteries, and the ability to fill up conventionally eases my worries about detours or delays.

Hopefully when this new vehicle dies, the charging (and cold weather) story will have improved.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#110

Post by RoboticCloud »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #75
barbariangrunge wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

Your car doesn't feel wind chill. I drive an EV in Canadian winter all the time. Not at all an issue. Range loss is a thing but it's not like the car stops working. In fact it starts more reliably and heats up more quickly for me. And I start mine remotely while it's still plugged in, so the cabin is warm and ready to go without wasting battery energy. And can do this safely in the garage without concerns of carbon m…

It's always been a pet-peeve of mine. People from the Mid-west of America always use it for hyperbole. -10C is cold, I get it. You don't have to go all dramatic and tell me it's -40C windchill, you're not naked. (if you are, I'm fine with windchill)
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