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A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

theguardian.com

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Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#11

Post by ManuelKiessling »

mathverse wrote: post #8

And this is with then sucking eastern europe dry off almost all capable medical personnel. Lets face it Western European healthcare is a scam. They are barely existing with millions of qualified people from CEE and now they are eyeing countries like Philippines, Indonesia and such. It is all a ponzi

I don’t have any specific information on the current situation, and regarding future developments, well my crystal ball is currently in service — but regarding the situation up until at least recently, I will go on record any time: I have lived the past 44 years in the context of the German health care system, and it was basically perfect, period.

Compared to the US (hearsay), and the Eastern European systems (first hand knowledge through the wife), I‘ll take the Western European system any day.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#12

Post by wolongong942 »

jleyank wrote: post #5

If governments can’t afford health care, how can individuals? Will medical care be limited to the wealthy? Or, as others here say, is it just a not terribly transparent effort to privatize and thus profit from the the problems of others?

The same thing is happening to NZ healthcare, i personally welcome means testing for elective surgeries. A lot of boomers needing healthcare here are sitting on significant gains from holding property, a boomer was recently complaining to me about his hip op being delayed twice through public, he owns a big $1m house, $2m in rentals and has $500k in a savings account, he could easily get it done this week with his own money.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#13

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

wolongong942 wrote: post #12
jleyank wrote: post #5

If governments can’t afford health care, how can individuals? Will medical care be limited to the wealthy? Or, as others here say, is it just a not terribly transparent effort to privatize and thus profit from the the problems of others?

The same thing is happening to NZ healthcare, i personally welcome means testing for elective surgeries. A lot of boomers needing healthcare here are sitting on significant gains from holding property, a boomer was recently complaining to me about his hip op being delayed twice through public, he owns a big $1m house, $2m in rentals and has $500k in a savings account, he could easily get it done this week with his ow…

You're saying that if you're in a high enough tax bracket then you should pay the most to support everyone else's healthcare but have no right to access it yourself.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#14

Post by karencarits »

Before, being a doctor or a nurse was probably more of a vocation or calling. As that attitude had been destroyed, healthcare professionals expect proper/normal work times and conditions, which is extremely costly. I think secularism plays a part in this, and Christian organizations still provide a lot of care which the government is not capable of giving

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#15

Post by nathias »

vjulian wrote: post #4
nathias wrote: post #2

It is slowly decaying here, in a central european country with socialized healthcare. It isn't because of COVID or aging or anything like that, but rather because of a systemic 'privatization' where taxes collected via mandatory private insurance companies are used to fund an alternative privatized healthcare system that then offers higher pay to healthcare workers.

Does it boil down to physicians and other care staff not being paid enough?

it boils down on the competition always being able to pay more because of how it is financed (for the state its an expense, for private health its an investment)

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#16

Post by wolongong942 »

ghostDancer wrote: post #3

It's an organized dismantle coming from the right wing parties, they cut resources and spending creating waiting lists and the deviate people to private services. The promotion of private healthcare it's all over, super cheap prices for now, till the destroy the system and then I guess we will get a super expensive scamming healthcare like in the USA. In Spain several hospitals that turned private were returning to b…

Right wing parties haven't had much say in western Europe as of recent, unless you've re-defined right wing. We're having the same issues here in NZ and it accelerated with a left wing govt.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#17

Post by virtual_void »

Services, such as healthcare, public infrastructure, public transport, energy etc should be run by the state. There is always a conflict of interest when companies run these things because they care about profit / shareholder return more than they care about the people.

Now, the fact that the state is often corrupt is another problem that should also be fixed but i just don’t buy the argument that companies should run public services because they’re more efficient.

The UK is suffering badly with this. I’m old enough to remember how badly some state run things were but i still believe that it was then due to underinvestment as it is with healthcare now.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#18

Post by wolongong942 »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #13
wolongong942 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing is happening to NZ healthcare, i personally welcome means testing for elective surgeries. A lot of boomers needing healthcare here are sitting on significant gains from holding property, a boomer was recently complaining to me about his hip op being delayed twice through public, he owns a big $1m house, $2m in rentals and has $500k in a savings account, he could easily get it done this week with his ow…

You're saying that if you're in a high enough tax bracket then you should pay the most to support everyone else's healthcare but have no right to access it yourself.

Property has been a tax loophole in NZ for decades, so they haven't necessarily ever been in a high tax bracket.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#19

Post by nopenopenopeno »

karencarits wrote: post #14

Before, being a doctor or a nurse was probably more of a vocation or calling. As that attitude had been destroyed, healthcare professionals expect proper/normal work times and conditions, which is extremely costly. I think secularism plays a part in this, and Christian organizations still provide a lot of care which the government is not capable of giving

Utter nonsense. If nurses didn't previously expect decent work conditions, what on Earth motivated them to unionize? Your comment is just total garbage all the way through.

Re: A ticking time bomb: healthcare under threat across western Europe

#20

Post by PaulKeeble »

Covid isn't helping. There is a constant stream of infected patients in A&E and intensive care, vast growing numbers of disabled Long Covid patients and a lot of healthcare staff have been impacted. Its a big increase in the needs for healthcare and will be for the foreseeable future. Healthcare staff have been heavily impacted by Long Covid and since there is no treatment let alone cure they are being lost at a faster rate than in most other industries.
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