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‘Luddite’ Teens

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#171

Post by mitchdoogle »

ravenstine wrote: post #73
dieselgate wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does one always risk a bit of "pretentiousness" if they act/live contrary to the "main stream"? Just by having a flip phone, for example, someone will be called a "hipster" or whatever name. It's like a group social phenomena or something - just by being vegetarian (or being more "pretentious" by being vegan) people experience this sort of stuff

Basically, yes, because a lot of people don't really know what being pretentious or a hipster actually means. The passage of time has lead to both terms being misunderstood and simultaneously conflated. In order for someone to actually be pretentious, there has to be a pretense. Being purposefully non-mainstream doesn't make someone pretentious as much as a more normal individual would like to believe. Hipsters aren'…

"When something becomes mainstream, I like it less because I believe something going from unknown to mainstream is usually a bad sign"

If someone ever asks me for an example of a pretentious comment, I'm going to give them this

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#172

Post by chip-8 »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #160
sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

Anyone who thinks reading Dostoyevski is an acomplishment must be borderline illiterate*. None of his works are a hard read. Dostoyevski is the acomplishment, not the reader. Almost all fiction is a passive medium, the "work" has already been done by the auhtor. Tens (hundreds?) of millions of copies have been sold, and his works are required reading in many high schools. >I am glad to see "the kids" continuing to qu…

I loved Crime and Punishment, but I struggled to grasp some of the long monologues in The Brothers Karamazov. It’s not hard to follow the plot, but because it deals with challenging ideas through monologues which completely stop the plot, I found it challenging to fully engage with. Hardly a very difficult read but not always an easy page-turner either. Maybe I just needed a better translation.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#173

Post by dudeofea »

wara23arish wrote: post #59
freemanofthewan wrote: post #52

"They marched up a hill toward their usual spot, a dirt mound located far from the park’s crowds. Among them was Odille Zexter-Kaiser, a senior at Edward R. Murrow High School in Midwood, who trudged through leaves in Doc Martens and mismatched wool socks." Wow, these kids sound like the new beatniks. "The club members cite libertine writers like Hunter S. Thompson and Jack Kerouac as heroes," and there's Jack..

I don’t think beatniks particularly wore the equivalent $150+ Doc Martens. Tangent, I really enjoyed reading On the Road

no, they just spent their (and other's) money on heroin

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#174

Post by ausbah »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #160
sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

Anyone who thinks reading Dostoyevski is an acomplishment must be borderline illiterate*. None of his works are a hard read. Dostoyevski is the acomplishment, not the reader. Almost all fiction is a passive medium, the "work" has already been done by the auhtor. Tens (hundreds?) of millions of copies have been sold, and his works are required reading in many high schools. >I am glad to see "the kids" continuing to qu…

"they're not authentic they're just performing" is also a trope. I assume someone is being genuine until proven otherwise

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#175

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #47
sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

> They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I don't know, to me it all seemed exceedingly genuine. If they're spending lots of time outside in parks—"rain or shine, even snow"—their clothing choices make sense. They like reading, and their reading material has made an impression (as good books are wont to do, especially for impre…

It’s genuine insofar as we have gone too far one way as a society and now people, even young people who have no concept of the old days, are exploring the opposite again.

I guess it seems a bit pretentious since those of us who were around as young adults when mobiles and the internet took off, and then worked in the industries that made the current situation happen, realise there is a happy midpoint. “The only thing better than a flip phone is no phone?” I can’t roll my eyes enough.

I dare say “our generation” started the idea of removing technology again and getting back some of the good old days.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#176

Post by rychco »

sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

While there’s definitely a performative aspect to it, I think there’s a genuine & sincere interest in rejecting social-media manufactured-reality. These teens, regardless of sincerity, are rejecting a demonstrably negative & harmful activity in favor of reading, art, music, & engaging with their local community. I’m thrilled that this is catching on at all. I’ve had a deep hatred of owning a smartphone for years, but always feel like I need it (slack & email for work, immediate news/link aggregation, etc.), so I’m jealous/happy that they’ve gotten a head start at rejecting it outright so young.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#177

Post by poopiokaka »

LarryMullins wrote: post #121
belfalas wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many ways the article feels like it's documenting kids with the freedom to have an opinion. Looking at the pictures in the article, it feels like a pretty uniform demographic. And in New York City, no less. Also, they idolize Chris McCandless - he was also a child of privilege who wanted to reject society. Chris didn't have to die but he did because he went up to Alaska woefully unprepared. That doesn't make his d…

> Also, they idolize Chris McCandless - he was also a child of privilege who wanted to reject society. Idolizing McCandless is such an odd thing; Alaska is filled with people who rejected their past lives like he did, but who didn't die because they had more humility and respect for the land.

Lol I can’t imagine judging kids this hard. You’re doing great

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#178

Post by mitchdoogle »

goatlover wrote: post #158
LarryMullins wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a theory that the TV show Firefly is appreciated today because it got cancelled before it was popular; they quit when they were ahead and before popularity ruined it. But most Firefly fans seem to hate my theory.

How does something being popular ruin its quality? The reason people diss hipsters is because they’re reacting to what other people enjoy instead of just liking something for its own sake.

I suppose popularity could inflate the creators' egos, leading them to make unilateral decisions without any advice or input from others. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the creator was already making unilateral decisions, but if before the popularity there was a group of people making decisions (such as a writers room for a television show) and after popularity they stop doing that, then there is a risk the quality goes down. Of course that's just one possibility of how popularity could lead to a reduction in quality, and its not the popularity itself that is the cause, it is a change in decision-making procedure. So in general, I would say it is disingenuous and pretentious to dislike something because of its popularity. It's not a valid reason

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#179

Post by floren »

jjav wrote: post #27
LucyEverylove wrote: post #10

I've been experimenting with a "no phone" protocol for a few months now. It has been amazing. Only occasionally problematic/inconvenient, mostly miss the GPS and music. Most things I used to do on phone I simply do on a laptop. But not constantly grabbing for a phone and staring at a screen... priceless.

> mostly miss the GPS and music I mostly go phoneless if at all possible. I use an old ipod nano for music. It's much better at it than the phone because it is so tiny and thin (and has a headphone jack). For GPS my watch (Garmin) has GPS.

> For GPS my watch (Garmin) has GPS.

Your watch can do navigation? Without being tethered to a phone? I'm interested, which model?

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#180

Post by Jorengarenar »

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #160
sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

Anyone who thinks reading Dostoyevski is an acomplishment must be borderline illiterate*. None of his works are a hard read. Dostoyevski is the acomplishment, not the reader. Almost all fiction is a passive medium, the "work" has already been done by the auhtor. Tens (hundreds?) of millions of copies have been sold, and his works are required reading in many high schools. >I am glad to see "the kids" continuing to qu…

>Anyone who thinks reading Dostoyevski is an acomplishment must be borderline illiterate

It's not an accomplishment, but it's definitely more, as parent commenter said, "performative" than saying they read any popular author of today.

As you yourself pointed, Dostoyevski is a required reading in high school and as anybody who had the "pleasure" of attending school, knows required reading usually isn't something what appeals to the youth (killing joy from this activity is another problem).

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