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Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

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Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#251

Post by hunter2_ »

jackson1442 wrote: post #78
thefurdrake wrote: post #13

A more-measured approach would be to just disable your ability to purchase/engage with purchased services/products. Of course, Google is actively motivated to make forcing them to face consequences for mishandling product disputes punishable by complete ostracization from their "ecosystem". On the one hand, this feels like a Surprised Pikachu moment: Of course a chargeback, the final legal method through which you ha…

> Of course a chargeback, the final legal method through which you have issues redressed, is a valid reason to deny you further access to a private company's platform. Normally I would agree, but a representative from google told OP to do a chargeback!

That's the crux of the issue. If a CSR told you to jump off a bridge though... Yes you might win something if charges are pressed, but also you really should've known better.

In matters of "ToS;DR" it's generally the case that terms aligned with common expectations are enforceable but terms that don't aren't. That leaves me wondering if "chargebacks get you canceled" is a common expectation or not. The answer to this strongly influences whether my bridge analogy is accurate.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#252

Post by bornfreddy »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #129
10729287 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... just a confirmation that signing for anything on google just makes you their hostage. I'm happy I quit them 5 years ago after I couldn't have access to my mail anymore after I stepped down my paid drive access to free one and I didn't have space anymore to receive emails.

Because that hit you by surprise, or because you intended to keep all those photos while on the free tier? It seems to me like deleting the files over your storage limit is the easy path for both you and google and I don't see how this is an example of holding you hostage. At most bad communication and a lack of warning.

Yes and no. It's more like google held them hostage and then just shot them without a request for ransom. It is the easy path though, I agree.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#253

Post by kube-system »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #248
kube-system wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they be able to retaliate against an invalid chargeback? Chargeback fraud is a thing.

Sure! But only if they have reasonable system for telling the difference.

Everyone thinks their system is reasonable, that's the whole problem. Banks obviously don't think chargeback fraud is fraud when they perform fraudulent chargebacks. They think they're reasonably legit, which is why they perform them. Retailers also think their fraud prevention systems are reasonable. Reasonable means different things to different people and it certainly doesn't mean infallible.

Nobody in any of these situations thinks they are being unreasonable.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#254

Post by Dylan16807 »

bornfreddy wrote: post #252
Dylan16807 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that hit you by surprise, or because you intended to keep all those photos while on the free tier? It seems to me like deleting the files over your storage limit is the easy path for both you and google and I don't see how this is an example of holding you hostage. At most bad communication and a lack of warning.

Yes and no. It's more like google held them hostage and then just shot them without a request for ransom. It is the easy path though, I agree.

If you stop paying for data storage, the default is you should expect it to be deleted.

If there was a problem with insufficient warning, that's a problem, but not a hostage problem.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#255

Post by Dylan16807 »

kube-system wrote: post #253
Dylan16807 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure! But only if they have reasonable system for telling the difference.

Everyone thinks their system is reasonable, that's the whole problem. Banks obviously don't think chargeback fraud is fraud when they perform fraudulent chargebacks. They think they're reasonably legit, which is why they perform them. Retailers also think their fraud prevention systems are reasonable. Reasonable means different things to different people and it certainly doesn't mean infallible. Nobody in any of thes…

> Everyone thinks their system is reasonable

Okay? I didn't say they get to choose. Was the implication of "shouldn't be able" not clear enough? You'd have externally imposed rules.

And in this case google hasn't expressed that they think the process was reasonable, they're just refusing to do anything.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#256

Post by bornfreddy »

perrohunter wrote: post #182
binarymax wrote: post #115

The only monetary relationship I have with Google is a paid youtube sub. I actively avoid getting involved in any business relationship with Google because of the mountain of evidence that it’s a bad idea. No Google suite. No Google cloud. No hardware. Google is an advertising company. They make their money from advertising and the rest of the revenue is a pittance to them, so they have no incentive to provide any su…

I'm in the same boat as you, only youtube left, I moved all services away from google and I'm working actively to move us away from Google Cloud, funny, I think I started using google around 2001 and now I want to stop using it because of all these incidents. Also their OSS sucks, they won't take any PRs from externals.

While on topic, how independent is Go? Is Google still the main decision maker there?

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#257

Post by rickyc091 »

So I placed an order for a MBP 16" from Apple around Black Friday and UPS lost my package during transit. It was not lost after delivery. It's been over two weeks going between Apple's support team and UPS.

UPS tells me to file a claim on their website and they can't address this through phone support, but they closed my case. Apple tells me they are waiting for UPS to respond to them before they can refund my order.

I'm not getting anywhere from either party. My only recourse seems to file a dispute so I can get my money back to place a replacement order, but being blacklisted by Apple is exactly what I fear.

If anyone has any thoughts, please let me know. I'd expect a company like Apple to have a better policy for replacing lost computers. While I understand fraud, I've made numerous purchases in the past with the same account.

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#258

Post by dang »

theturtletalks wrote: post #234
dang wrote: post #218

This title is breaking the HN guideline about titles: " Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize. " - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html In fact it is doing all three things we ask people not to do: it's editorialized, it's linkbait (sensational/indignant), and it's arguably misleading because it's making a general claim while the linked article is the narra…

The original title is a TIFU post and I don't think those are allowed on HN. The title is not misleading since most companies will ban you if you do a chargeback. The thing to note here is that a chargeback was done against the Google Store and the Gmail account was banned. My goal wasn't to editorialize, I just wanted to let people know that their Gmail account was at risk if they did a chargeback against any of Goo…

> The original title is a TIFU post and I don't think those are allowed on HN.

Why did you think that?

> My goal wasn't to editorialize, I just wanted to let people know that their Gmail account was at risk if they did a chargeback against any of Google's services. This was new information to me and a lot of people on this thread.

Sure, and I appreciate your good intention (it was new to me too). But if you want to say what you think is important about an article, you should do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#259

Post by bornfreddy »

hedora wrote: post #79
adastra22 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is google a monopoly? I get by just fine without it.

You probably don't get by without it entirely. Set up a DNS black hole for all of TLS's TLDs, and watch your local network collapse. (Having said that, I more-or-less never log into my google account, and also don't intentionally use any of their services.)

> ...for all of TLS's TLDs,...

Curious what you meant by that? Which TLDs are that and why would my local network collapse?

Re: Tell HN: Doing a chargeback against Google will get your account banned

#260

Post by bornfreddy »

nhod wrote: post #219

This also happens with Amazon, FWIW. We were doing a reconciliation on our credit card statements and saw some charges from Amazon that didn't correspond to anything in our order history, for like $30 or so. (Amazon charges as it ships, so in large orders where not all items ship together you can be charged random amounts). We ended up charging them back. Amazon nuked my account. I've been an Amazon customer since th…

Did you move your spending elsewhere? If not then their math worked correctly.

I think we need to be principled when dealing with companies. This is the only way to make them behave as they should.

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