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‘Luddite’ Teens

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#121

Post by LarryMullins »

belfalas wrote: post #100
sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

In many ways the article feels like it's documenting kids with the freedom to have an opinion. Looking at the pictures in the article, it feels like a pretty uniform demographic. And in New York City, no less. Also, they idolize Chris McCandless - he was also a child of privilege who wanted to reject society. Chris didn't have to die but he did because he went up to Alaska woefully unprepared. That doesn't make his d…

> Also, they idolize Chris McCandless - he was also a child of privilege who wanted to reject society.

Idolizing McCandless is such an odd thing; Alaska is filled with people who rejected their past lives like he did, but who didn't die because they had more humility and respect for the land.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#122

Post by karaterobot »

So many of these NYT pieces are a character study framed as though it were describing a small part of a larger movement. I'd like this sentiment to be widespread and robust among the upcoming generation of young adults, but will it be? It's difficult to believe.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#123

Post by jackpirate »

rootusrootus wrote: post #75
LucyEverylove wrote: post #10

I've been experimenting with a "no phone" protocol for a few months now. It has been amazing. Only occasionally problematic/inconvenient, mostly miss the GPS and music. Most things I used to do on phone I simply do on a laptop. But not constantly grabbing for a phone and staring at a screen... priceless.

The next step after this epiphany is to realize you can do this without actually giving up the phone. Just because it's in your pocket doesn't mean you need to pull it out constantly and look at it. It's just a tool, relegate it to that position in your life and don't use it like a pacifier.

And the next step after this epiphany is that you still have to remember to take the phone with you places, not to leave it behind, and worry about it getting dropped in the toilet by a toddler. Not caring this tool still has a lot of benefits.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#124

Post by skippyboxedhero »

LarryMullins wrote: post #65
wara23arish wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think beatniks particularly wore the equivalent $150+ Doc Martens. Tangent, I really enjoyed reading On the Road

What did they wear? Sandals or something? I tried birkenstock sandals before but they only lasted about a year before they became too gross to wear. $150 doc martens seem like good value to me. They last about 5-8 years at the rate I wear through them, or about $20-30 per year. Certainly more efficient than any sneakers.

They make doc martens in China now. I imagine the 8-year old who made your shoes was a master craftsman, however...they start them young.

The original factory still makes boots, they aren't quite as "cool" though. The people at your Communist reading group might not even heard of the brand.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#125

Post by echelon »

LarryMullins wrote: post #95
ravenstine wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, yes, because a lot of people don't really know what being pretentious or a hipster actually means. The passage of time has lead to both terms being misunderstood and simultaneously conflated. In order for someone to actually be pretentious, there has to be a pretense. Being purposefully non-mainstream doesn't make someone pretentious as much as a more normal individual would like to believe. Hipsters aren'…

I've got a theory that the TV show Firefly is appreciated today because it got cancelled before it was popular; they quit when they were ahead and before popularity ruined it. But most Firefly fans seem to hate my theory.

I think you're absolutely correct. The show was campy, and in time, would have become grating and fallen apart.

Star Wars, once lauded, has been milked dry. There are a few good works, but by and large they're beating a dead horse.

The same thing is happening to Marvel. People checked out after Endgame.

Game of Thrones was so near to perfection. It had an unusually large cast of a hundred characters and an expansive world to draw down. But even if the new show is good, the magic is gone.

The mystery of Stranger Things after season one ended. We're getting a rehash with common character tropes you can find anywhere.

The allure of Westworld softened after season one attempted to open up to bigger themes, but actually cut down on the possibility space.

The third Godfather. Dexter. Every single Jurassic Park but the first. Jaws. On and on.

Chiefly, it's simply a function of multiplied probabilities to continue with a success streak. Eventually the odds do not pay off in your favor.

But I think another contributing factor is that our brains begin to fit the shape of the setting, the motifs, the character arcs, the narrative world - and we just aren't surprised or pleased any longer. Few people would ask for twenty seasons of a show. Or ten movies in a given franchise. Our brains learn the shape of the landscape and grow bored.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#126

Post by hcknwscommenter »

belfalas wrote: post #100
sequoia wrote: post #41

This is interesting but I can't help but notice how intensely performative these kids are as well, at least how they're characterized in this article. They're wearing Carhartt (an unusual choice for a metropolis like NYC), reading Dostoyevski and gathering to "listen to the wind." I will say most teens are like this and I certainly was myself, but I hope they are careful not to cultivate their own "artisan" brand of…

In many ways the article feels like it's documenting kids with the freedom to have an opinion. Looking at the pictures in the article, it feels like a pretty uniform demographic. And in New York City, no less. Also, they idolize Chris McCandless - he was also a child of privilege who wanted to reject society. Chris didn't have to die but he did because he went up to Alaska woefully unprepared. That doesn't make his d…

I think the Krakauer book does a great job of describing the nuances of McCandless's level of preparedness. Of course maybe the author has a bias, but it certainly doesn't seem that way to me. McCandless was fairly unlucky despite having done quite a bit to prepare and try to ensure success. He ate a plant that was categorized as edible in a respected source book, but the actual part that he ate (in the season that he ate it) was poisonous. Once that happened and he realized what was going on, all his prior efforts to make sure he would remain isolated (including dubious choices like not bringing a map) spelled his doom. To me, McCandless made a conscious choice to try to live off the land without help. That is also a conscious choice to die if things go too wrong. Did he want to die? I don't think so, but he had to know it was a distinct and not-so-insignificant likelihood. I think I would NEVER do something like that. But was McCandless woefully unprepared? I personally don't think so. I am aware that I might have a minority opinion on that, because he did die.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#127

Post by rdlw »

LarryMullins wrote: post #95
ravenstine wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, yes, because a lot of people don't really know what being pretentious or a hipster actually means. The passage of time has lead to both terms being misunderstood and simultaneously conflated. In order for someone to actually be pretentious, there has to be a pretense. Being purposefully non-mainstream doesn't make someone pretentious as much as a more normal individual would like to believe. Hipsters aren'…

I've got a theory that the TV show Firefly is appreciated today because it got cancelled before it was popular; they quit when they were ahead and before popularity ruined it. But most Firefly fans seem to hate my theory.

Well yes, most people react poorly to "The reason you love the thing you love is not because it is good, but for "

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#128

Post by filmgirlcw »

okwubodu wrote: post #97
the-printer wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carhartt often moonlights as a streetwear brand.

"Streetwear" itself has a snobbish connotation as of late.

Streetwear has been associated with luxury/higher fashion/snobbery in the mainstream for at least a decade (though its influence both on and by high fashion goes back to the 90s). The biggest fashion trend of the 2010s that has extended into the 2020s was the rise of the streetwear and sneaker culture from the streets and into the mainstream, often at luxury price points.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#129

Post by TheRealPomax »

wara23arish wrote: post #59
freemanofthewan wrote: post #52

"They marched up a hill toward their usual spot, a dirt mound located far from the park’s crowds. Among them was Odille Zexter-Kaiser, a senior at Edward R. Murrow High School in Midwood, who trudged through leaves in Doc Martens and mismatched wool socks." Wow, these kids sound like the new beatniks. "The club members cite libertine writers like Hunter S. Thompson and Jack Kerouac as heroes," and there's Jack..

I don’t think beatniks particularly wore the equivalent $150+ Doc Martens. Tangent, I really enjoyed reading On the Road

Couldn't get through it, personally. Stopped 20 pages in when then writing style just keep getting in the way of the writing.

Re: ‘Luddite’ Teens

#130

Post by drewcoo »

ravenstine wrote: post #73
dieselgate wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does one always risk a bit of "pretentiousness" if they act/live contrary to the "main stream"? Just by having a flip phone, for example, someone will be called a "hipster" or whatever name. It's like a group social phenomena or something - just by being vegetarian (or being more "pretentious" by being vegan) people experience this sort of stuff

Basically, yes, because a lot of people don't really know what being pretentious or a hipster actually means. The passage of time has lead to both terms being misunderstood and simultaneously conflated. In order for someone to actually be pretentious, there has to be a pretense. Being purposefully non-mainstream doesn't make someone pretentious as much as a more normal individual would like to believe. Hipsters aren'…

Well, if we're going to talk "really means," then . . .

Hipsters are people who follow trends. They try to be "hip."

Rejecting things because everyone else likes them is not being a hipster. It's being a contrarian.

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