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Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

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Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#81

tldr; The experts make it look impossible but the masters make it look easy and actually teach you Just ranting out here so feel free to ignore :-) This is not really aimed at the author but towards the "elite" group. There was another elite commentator in one of the other thread who said he dropped out of ML class because This course included gems such as "if you don't know what a derivative is, that is fine" and he…

Sigh. I disagree.

It's not about you. Math does not exist to exclude you. People who use math are not trying to exclude you, they are just trying to make their jobs easier. Math can be just as accessible as this ML material when taught properly.

If your point is that more effort needs to be made to teach advanced topics in accessible ways, well, duh. That's a straw man.

I'm sorry that you feel so alienated from institutions like Stanford that you feel the need to compare their students to "wall street elite" that "do not care about the rest of the population" who "deserve what they get" for "being dumb." I think this rhetoric is out of line on HN.

If the author wrote, "CS 229A lets in the riff raff, I don't like those people" then you'd have a point. But that's not what he wrote. He's simply looking to learn more and get his money's worth. As others here pointed out, he probably should have taken the full CS 229 instead.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#82
post #69

There are two goals with learning ML: - Applying known ML algorithms to a real world task - Coming up with new ML algorithms and research It turns out (ahem) that the first goal, applying ML, is not only much, much higher in demand than the second goal, but is also much, much easier to teach than the content required to pursue the second. This dichotomy is the reason the split between CS229a and CS229 in both content…

The secret is: This Is The Internet.

There's no reason a class can't have the same material presented two (or three or twelve) different ways for multiple audiences.

There's no reason a class needs a "start date" and an "end date." We can grow classes to be about communities, not authorities. None of us are as smart as all of us.

We shouldn't copy the Boring Ole' Lecture Format (and especially not "camera up my nose while I write on paper") when we could be doing so much more.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could just be an expectation problem. I think most of these free courses have that 'Applied' stuck infront of them, ok, fine. But for my education I want rigor. I don't want to just know how to use something, I want to know how the guy who came up with it figured it out and I want to be bale to prove things about it. Not having to know what a derivative is does not fit this. I don't think it's a matter of the el…

I know ML and have a math degree; I don't see why you'd need to know what a derivative is. If anything, I think exposure to ML and functional programming before differential calculus could be beneficial since you'd better appreciate that differentiation is just one special application (no pun intended) of the concept of higher order functions.

Well for example take the least squares formula \theta = (X^T X)^{-1} X y. You derive that by setting a derivative to zero, and solving for \theta. If you don't know what a derivative is, then you're just using an equation that came out of nowhere and that you don't understand.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#84
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took the free class, and have looked at the material for CS 229, and there's no way that I would ever claim that I had mastered CS 229. CS 229 looks to be brutally difficult, and I have an MIT degree. Yes, we had our brutally difficult classes too, but I'm not particulary enthusiastic that some of my MIT classes that were so difficult. I think that I could have learned just as much if I had had more time to sleep.…

I totally agree. I felt a number of the Master's level CS classes were more like hazings than classes. It was like some professors were most interested in making their particular field of interest seem insanely difficult at the expense of students comprehending the material. Or alternately, some profs were primarily concerned with creating material difficult that most of the students would falter, and it would become…

I just don't want my degree devalued by people who aren't as astute as yourself when it comes to the gap between the online courses and those taken by Stanford students.

I can certainly understand this worry, but I don't think you really have to worry too much about this. Those who matter will always know the true value of a Stanford education. It's not quite as good as an MIT education ;) but it's right up there.

When I worked at Harvard a few years ago, there was a tempest in a tea pot over Harvard Extension and Hillary Duff. The media got wind that Hillary was taking some distance learning classes via Harvard Extension and referred to her as a "Harvard student". Harvard Extension is an excellent institution, and Harvard should be commended for running it, but it is rather different from Harvard College and Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. Harvard Extension, for instance, has no admissions requirements. They accept everyone, but you can't stay in it unless you get decent grades.

In response to the news stories about Hillary, The Crimson published an editorial that was extremely snide about Ms. Duff being a "Harvard (extension) student". This editorial did not make the undergraduate population of Harvard look good. It made them look like a bunch of unsympathetic brats. Sure, it might be a bit annoying if you feel that any ol' person can claim to be a Harvard student when you worked hard your entire life to get into Harvard. On the other hand, when it matters, there is unlikely to be any real confusion, and there is no real devaluation of a Harvard College degree.

It is true that some people do through a bit of vagary to pass off their Harvard Extension degree as a Harvard College or Graduate School degree, but when you catch someone in this, it just makes them look rather bad.

In summary, I hope that Stanford students don't make the same mistake that the Harvard Crimson made. If I didn't know a bunch of Harvard students personally, the Crimson article would have reinforced a bad taste in my mind about Harvard students in general.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#85

tldr; The experts make it look impossible but the masters make it look easy and actually teach you Just ranting out here so feel free to ignore :-) This is not really aimed at the author but towards the "elite" group. There was another elite commentator in one of the other thread who said he dropped out of ML class because This course included gems such as "if you don't know what a derivative is, that is fine" and he…

I am not one of the elite. I had to drop out due to a not simple life. So I think I can offer an outside perspective. I did teach myself a lot of math to be able to understand machine learning. I did not read ahead, that is boring. But I found that as I went along, the more I wanted to tune the algorithm beyond the standard fare, the more power I wanted, well then the more math I had to read and understand. I simply was not satisfied to write decision tree code without understanding how. Or if you read a paper and you want to implement something you will need to be able to understand the math hiding the ideas because the pseudo code is often rubbish and bugged - assuming its even there at all. I did this to implement matrix factorization, to extend logistic regression beyond binary and with sparser weights, SVM etc.

And then something began to happen the more I learned. I no longer thought I need naive bayes this, Decision tree that, random forest there or whatever. I thought I need this concept from statistics or that idea from information theory, i just need to group and count there and that loss function is useful here. So I could come up or modify something to my need. As I go long I am finding that while before I looked for an excuse to use something fancy sounding now I prefer to go as simple as possible - but without having gone through the hard stage I could not appreciate where the simpler solution is better.

I also learned a great deal of differential calculus when implementing an automatic differentiator (a backpropogating Neural net is basically just a special case of reverse auto diff). Its fast can work with decent sized vectors (10^5 - 10^6 entries I tested) and can do gradients, hessians and jacobians of arbitrary functions. I also expect that I can easily extend it to be able to work with tensors although I haven't needed them yet. Using it I wrote a stochastic gradient descent algorithm and can plug in arbitrary loss functions and a whole bunch of algorithms just merge. I could also easily write say L-BFGS for it. Neural networks, logistic, linear regression, support vector were basically just swapping out one line.

This flexibility is what you gain.

===========================

In the below fn is an arbitrary mathematical function such as

  let eq1 (x:float[]) = 1. - 4. * x.[0] + 2. * x.[0] ** 2.- 2. * x.[1] **3.

  let newtonOpt prec iters fn (guess:float[]) = 
    let rec iterate delta iter cguess = 
     match delta with
      | _ when delta  iters -> cguess
      | _ ->    let h = hessian cguess fn 
                let _, g, _ = grad_ cguess fn
                let gs =  cguess - m.Inverse() * g
                let cdel = (gs - cguess).Norm(2.)
                iterate cdel (iter + 1) gs
    iterate Double.MaxValue 0 guess
example of a loss function

  []
  let llog (cx:float[]) _XdotW y  = y * log (1./(1. + exp(_XdotW))) + (1. - y) * log(1. - (1./(1. + exp(_XdotW))))

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#86
post #5

As a stanford CS grad myself, I basically concur. I took this class as a refresher for things I learned back in school. It was perfect for that. But the rigor and difficulty of the class was clearly tailored towards someone like me, who wanted to watch lecture videos over dinner for a few hours a week, rather than a full-time student. I actually wasn't aware that the online class was being offered for credit in the C…

I did the AI class and that was not the case. Stanford students were clearly separated from the online students. We didn't get the same assignments neither.

I took CS221 last quarter. So I can say that you got the same assignments and exams; you just weren't required to do the programming assignments. While ml-class was perhaps the third iteration of putting the machine learning class online, ai-class was probably the first time someone tried to put CS221 online; the professors simply felt that they wouldn't be able to automate the assignments in the time that they had. In fact, many of the YouTube lectures, which many Stanford students seemed to prefer, were often not available to us in time for the assignments and exams.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#87
I was MS CS at Stanford, and I agree with Ben's sentiment. I took CS221, and checked out ai-class for fun, and knew several people taking the on-campus version of CS221 this quarter. The short of it is that the online version is essentially the same as the on-campus version, and both fail to adequately prepare a student for further study in AI. It's great that Norvig and Thrun are willing to present this survey class to the public, but not at the expense of students who are actually in the classroom at Stanford and also footing the bill for this grand experiment.

Yes, the class was a fun introduction to AI. But no, it did not offer a deep and thorough theoretical foundation that I would expect from a Stanford class.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#88
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your math is a little off, 100K signed up for the AI class, only 40K actually turned in a HW, guessing that less than 20K actually finished, guessing none of the classes this spring will have anything close to that enrollment

You pay at the beginning. Whether you finish or not does not change how much you make.

If you had to pay up-front (even $10), they'd probably have gotten <1000 signups.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#89

Put down the pen. MIT, Stanford, et.al. have already done the math on this. 20,000 "certification" exams @ $99.00 each is not insignificant. It's just shy of 40 full-time students @ $50,000 per year. Heats a lot of buildings.

The economics of online education seems very similar to those of TV and software industries: large one time expense on content development, global winner takes most competitions(for courses taught in english), brand names are important.

This may lead to dumbing down of courses(to an extent) to get more users. But sure, they don't want to harm the main business.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#90
post #69

There are two goals with learning ML: - Applying known ML algorithms to a real world task - Coming up with new ML algorithms and research It turns out (ahem) that the first goal, applying ML, is not only much, much higher in demand than the second goal, but is also much, much easier to teach than the content required to pursue the second. This dichotomy is the reason the split between CS229a and CS229 in both content…

I'm sorry if I made it confusing, but it really isn't about whether I signed up for 229 or 229a, the point is most of my classes for the coming term are now under this new online format and it would be shame to see them lower their standards to fit the public.

It's a good point -- I guess we'll find out next semester if the difficulty being below average had to do with the nature of the class itself (the a in 229a) or the audience it was being developed for. I hope, if the classes you mention are listed under the same course number they always have, that the difficulty won't be less than usual.

For the rest of us, what classes are these? Part of the reason an easier class is better for the public is because there's just less time for working people. If the difficulty/time commitment for the offered classes next semester are substantially more than 229a I'd imagine you'll see a much higher dropout rate not due to lack of ability but due to lack of time. It seems odd Stanford would try to pack a "real" course into the online/public format, but at the same time seems odd they'd dilute a "real" course for their undergraduates.

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