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Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

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Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#61

Post by nessus42 »

diiq wrote: post #20

My degree is in Fine Art, and I thought the class was pointlessly easy. Fix the class in two easy steps: Lecture live, record the lectures. EVERY speaker is more effective when they have the feedback of their audience's faces. Expect the members of the public to meet the class' standard, don't shrivel the curriculum to match the public. An applied CS course that doesn't demand programming is bizarre. Flunk everyone i…

I could not disagree more. I have an MIT degree, and I thought it was remarkably refreshing to have the difficult made easy, rather than vice versa. Not that I have huge complaints with my MIT education, but having taken some classes at Harvard too, where the emphasis was sometimes different, I can appreciate that there's often a great deal of value in a class that can draw people in and make them interested, rather than send them fleeing in terror. Personally, I thought that Prof. Ng's lectures where brilliant in their ability to make difficult material completely approachable.

I do think that he occasionally would belabor the obvious, but for the intended purpose of the class, I think that it is better that he erred on the side of being too clear, rather than on the side of being opaque.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#62

Post by jmares »

I took CS229 at Stanford.

ml-class.org does a phenomenal job in equipping you with the practical knowledge needed to apply the tools of machine learning to real problems.

There is no reason why learning to use these tools should be hard. If you want a challenge, there are plenty of problems in the world amenable to solution via machine learning, especially in today's data deluge.

If you want a deep mathematical appreciation of the algorithms and their derivation, you should do CS229, not CS229a.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#64

Post by nessus42 »

balloot wrote: post #53
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt similarly dismayed about a machine learning course which doesn't demand knowledge of calculus.

Wow. They didn't require knowledge of calculus? I took the actual CS 229 at Stanford and a class that doesn't require calculus at all would only be able to touch on a small fraction of topics. My worry, which is similar to the worry of the student in the linked post, is that these lectures may be devaluing the in-person versions of the course. CS 229 was one of the top 5 hardest classes I have ever taken. I would rat…

I took the free class, and have looked at the material for CS 229, and there's no way that I would ever claim that I had mastered CS 229. CS 229 looks to be brutally difficult, and I have an MIT degree. Yes, we had our brutally difficult classes too, but I'm not particulary enthusiastic that some of my MIT classes that were so difficult. I think that I could have learned just as much if I had had more time to sleep.

There was one "brutally difficult" class at MIT that I loved, though: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. It would be nice if all brutally difficult classes came in a less brutal version, though. That level of difficulty is great if you adore the subject matter, as I adored SICP, but if you only like it instead, this type of class can give you a permanent aversion for the material rather than transform you liking into love.

I feel that MIT's Signals and Systems did this to me. There's no way that having to do ten pages of algebra (e.g., Laplace transform, inverse Laplace transform, simultaneous equations) to solve a single homework assignment, multiplied by ten for the entire problem set, was ever going to do anything but give me a permanent aversion for the subject matter.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#65

Post by overgryphon »

restofus wrote: post #34
brudolph wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class meetings were optional (which I did attend) and only a fraction of the students actually attended. I don't have a problem with cs229a being easier than 229, but the thing is a lot of other classes have now turned to the online format with no alternative (like 229 to 229a). Selfstudy is great, but sometimes the best way to learn is from a structured class.

Selfstudy is great, but sometimes the best way to learn is from a structured class Well lots of people might like to be treated like grown ups and not like the structured classes and who knows they might even write a letter asking for refund

I'm surprised you think being in a structured class is equivalent to being treated like a child. What school did you go to that did this?

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#66

Post by clavalle »

jmilloy wrote: post #29
clavalle wrote: post #26

There is no reason that there could not be a graduated difficulty for these classes. Example: The 'level 1' or 'core' videos and assignments can be a base and offered for free and be of a similar duration and difficulty as the class now... 'Level 2' would either replace or augment the 'level 1' and would be more advanced and require some knowledge of pre-requisites and more 'synthesis' or 'critical' style assignments…

> There is no reason that there could not be a graduated difficulty for these classes. Of course there is. These classes are provided for free, yet require time and money and effort. You've likely more than tripled the required resources to produce the class.

I'd be happy to pay, especially for the higher levels.

But it would be nice to explore topics at the most shallow level for free or at a low price to see if it covers what I expect in a manner that I find useful. Basically, a funnel.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#67

Post by balloot »

nessus42 wrote: post #64
balloot wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. They didn't require knowledge of calculus? I took the actual CS 229 at Stanford and a class that doesn't require calculus at all would only be able to touch on a small fraction of topics. My worry, which is similar to the worry of the student in the linked post, is that these lectures may be devaluing the in-person versions of the course. CS 229 was one of the top 5 hardest classes I have ever taken. I would rat…

I took the free class, and have looked at the material for CS 229, and there's no way that I would ever claim that I had mastered CS 229. CS 229 looks to be brutally difficult, and I have an MIT degree. Yes, we had our brutally difficult classes too, but I'm not particulary enthusiastic that some of my MIT classes that were so difficult. I think that I could have learned just as much if I had had more time to sleep.…

I totally agree. I felt a number of the Master's level CS classes were more like hazings than classes. It was like some professors were most interested in making their particular field of interest seem insanely difficult at the expense of students comprehending the material. Or alternately, some profs were primarily concerned with creating material difficult that most of the students would falter, and it would become clear who the top 3-5 students are. Then they would know who to invite to their research group. Neither of these made for a particularly fun experience.

But at the same time, some of the classes had very difficult subject matter and the professors were actually interested in teaching students instead of torturing them. So it wasn't totally a bad experience.

I guess there is some value in having these online classes because they motivate professors to make their subject matter more palatable. I just don't want my degree devalued by people who aren't as astute as yourself when it comes to the gap between the online courses and those taken by Stanford students.

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#68

Post by restofus »

overgryphon wrote: post #65
restofus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selfstudy is great, but sometimes the best way to learn is from a structured class Well lots of people might like to be treated like grown ups and not like the structured classes and who knows they might even write a letter asking for refund

I'm surprised you think being in a structured class is equivalent to being treated like a child. What school did you go to that did this?

I do not think structured classes is equivalent to being treated like a child.

It was intended as a general comment that some people might not like it and equate it like that based on his comment that only a fraction people actually attended it and maybe if it was made compulsory they might not like it and there is a probability that they will say that.

Just a point that what ever you do there will be some group that will not like it .

Re: Stanford Free Classes – A review from a Stanford Student

#69

Post by gfodor »

There are two goals with learning ML:

- Applying known ML algorithms to a real world task

- Coming up with new ML algorithms and research

It turns out (ahem) that the first goal, applying ML, is not only much, much higher in demand than the second goal, but is also much, much easier to teach than the content required to pursue the second. This dichotomy is the reason the split between CS229a and CS229 in both content and audience works so well. The demand for CS229 is low and the rigor is high (so it should be priced high), and the demand for CS229a is high and the rigor is low (so it should be priced low.) The author signed up for the wrong class. I think Stanford is teasing out subfields of CS that have this quality, and there sure are many.

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