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Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

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Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#581

Post by xcrunner529 »

claytongulick wrote: post #578
xcrunner529 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data is easy to find. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-... I wonder what happened in 2020 and beyond that so many more died? It must just be the weather

When you've spent the time that I have looking into the source and methodology behind that data, rather than just spending 30 seconds googling, please let me know. But here, I'll save you some time. Those pretty graphs you're linking to use the HMD database as the primary source through Feb 2021. Take a look at how the HMD database derives it's numbers [1]. Now we can discuss the issue in rational, educated terms. [1…

Ah an attempt to appeal to authority with no proof of any credentials. That’s when you know you lost.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#582

Post by xcrunner529 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #576
xcrunner529 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine has stayed just as effective for serious disease as it always was said. I am undeniably safer with the vaccine than without as I have actual family members who like you bought into the “vaccine bad” propaganda and died an early death from…COVID. There really should be real life DARWIN awards. The great thing, it’s mostly right wing voters dying. :)

> The vaccine has stayed just as effective for serious disease as it always was said. It wasn't, this is just how you're coping with your cognitive dissonance. > There really should be real life DARWIN awards. There are. They are called the Darwin Awards. They have a website and everything. > The great thing, it’s mostly right wing voters dying. :) No I know you don't really mean it, you're just angry and lashing out…

The people dying are almost all unvaccinated. In any age group. Period. It’s a fact you can’t change.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#583

Post by bb88 »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #393
bb88 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the Musk takeover, conspiracy theorists on $8Chan have talked about Grant Wahl dying suddenly because of the "clot shot". Then we find out he died of a ruptured aortic aneurysm. Then people still refuse to believe it because it doesn't fit their narrative they're pushing. And anyone who dies suddenly must have died because of the vaccine. https://twitter.com/DiedSuddenly_/status/1603103342481342465 This killed…

Are you saying that aneuryms are not a potential adverse event associated with MRNA Covid vaccination [1]? Furthermore, we know hypertension is also associated with dissections, and there are several documented cases of acute and non-acute hypertension after MRNA covid vaccination [2] I'm saying that to say there are some possibilities there, but I am also going to say the opposite too. I don't know that we know enou…

These are at least 4 known causes of aortic aneurysms.

1) Smoking (behavioral)

2) High blood pressure (dietary or genetic)

3) High cholesterol (dietary of genetic)

4) Marfan's syndrome (genetic)

Last I checked, doctors (who know these things) were seriously considering it was #4.

You're a skeptic, right? Why invent new untested possibilities when a there are a series of well known possibilities to be tested first?

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#584

Post by throwawaylinux »

jancsika wrote: post #568
throwawaylinux wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My entire issue actually has nothing to do with health, and everything to do with authoritarianism. Before the vaccine mandates and coercion I had a seething hatred of corrupt and incompetent little tyrants in positions of power, afterward was nothing new, it just confirmed what I already knew about them. I don't care if I would have a statistically better outcome with the vaccine, I took great pleasure in standing u…

> I don't care if I would have a statistically better outcome with the vaccine, I took great pleasure in standing up and defying their bullying and coercion. I don't understand this line of reasoning. If one is being bullied and coerced into what you and I both consider to be the correct decision, one ought to a) make the correct decision, and then b) deal with the bullies?

I don't think I said I considered it to be correct or incorrect, but yes either way I will never take it now. If I had not been bullied by pissant little tyrants I'd have considered getting the vaccine depending on the situation. I don't get yearly flu vaccines either, but I took them in situations that required it (visiting medically sensitive people/places). Not to compare the diseases, just to compare the situation -- I'm also told a yearly flu vaccine is the "correct decision".

But that's really aside, as I said it's not about the clinical benefit of the treatment. I have principles and I have pride, and it would hurt me mentally to do what they tell me. I believe on balance this choice is better for my health. I know several people who didn't want to get the vaccine but were forced to for their jobs, and are deeply upset by that.

I perfectly realize that there are people who get fearful and panicked and are comforted by subservience to authoritarian leaders, who will never understand my line of reasoning. Just like I will never understand theirs. But I can empathize with them -- it must have been terrifying for them, and I don't blame them for being riled up and angry at people who disagreed with them and with their authorities.

What made me sad was how little empathy there has been from people towards what they don't understand. I guess it goes with the fear mindset, fear of the unknown, the other.

This is how they prey on us, I guess.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#585

Post by throwawaylinux »

xcrunner529 wrote: post #582
throwawaylinux wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccine has stayed just as effective for serious disease as it always was said. It wasn't, this is just how you're coping with your cognitive dissonance. > There really should be real life DARWIN awards. There are. They are called the Darwin Awards. They have a website and everything. > The great thing, it’s mostly right wing voters dying. :) No I know you don't really mean it, you're just angry and lashing out…

The people dying are almost all unvaccinated. In any age group. Period. It’s a fact you can’t change.

You put on a brave front, but I think deep down your beliefs don't really comfort you from knowing that you've been fooled and wrong many times, and continue to be. I think and hope you are strong enough to one day come to terms with it though.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#586

Post by clnq »

ceejayoz wrote: post #204
hammock wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the covid death numbers trustworthy? (honest Q)

They're probably low, if anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercounting_of_COVID-19_pand... The chart on https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm shows all cause deaths before and during the pandemic; there's an extremely clear difference, and it coincides closely with the spikes in COVID cases we've seen. This method of reporting avoids all the complexities around "died with COVID" vs "die…

An article was published in Nature a few days ago saying the actual number of COVID deaths could be around 2.75x higher than officially reported numbers. We might be underestimating deaths by many millions worldwide.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04138-w

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#587

Post by emmelaich »

wpietri wrote: post #420
emmelaich wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AIDS/HIV sufferers would like a word with you. Speaking of which, Fauci's early statements on AIDS in the initial outbreak were interesting.

Your theory is that the best way to prevent AIDS deaths is quarantining people? That seems extreme. Regardless, it's not one of the diseases listed on the linked page, and it's very different in nature than the ones there, so that sounds like a red herring to me.

WTH? No. How can you get such a meaning from that. It's the opposite!

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#588

Post by claytongulick »

xcrunner529 wrote: post #581
claytongulick wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you've spent the time that I have looking into the source and methodology behind that data, rather than just spending 30 seconds googling, please let me know. But here, I'll save you some time. Those pretty graphs you're linking to use the HMD database as the primary source through Feb 2021. Take a look at how the HMD database derives it's numbers [1]. Now we can discuss the issue in rational, educated terms. [1…

Ah an attempt to appeal to authority with no proof of any credentials. That’s when you know you lost.

All cause mortality for US source NVSS:

2018 - 2,839,205

2019 - 2,854,838

2020 - 3,383,729

Expected deaths for a given year are based on a combination of factors such as the population age, and function fitting previous trends. It would have been around 2.9 million for 2020.

So the raw excess death count for 2020 is somewhere south of 500k.

Many of these deaths were due to covid directly. The vast majority of which were people already at end of life, very elderly and with significant comorbidities.

We're still doing research on how many of these excess deaths were due to downstream effects of covid interventions, such as lack of access to care, deaths of despair, etc...

Also, when researching all cause mortality in 2020 and 2021 make sure to take into account fentanyl, which has exploded during those years and account for over 100,000 deaths in 2021 alone.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#589

Post by l8rlump »

birken wrote: post #403
wsc981 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark doesn’t recommend COVID vaccines anymore to anyone under 50 who is not at risk or work in health sector [0]. > People aged under 50 are generally not at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19. In addition, younger people aged under 50 are well protected against becoming severely ill from covid-19, as a very large number of them have already been vaccinated and have previously been inf…

While I think it is certainly fair to talk about the policies of other countries, I don't think just because another country has a different policy necessarily dictates that policy is better or worse. Additionally, I think it's very easy to see something like "Denmark doesn't recommend the vaccines to anybody under 50" and conflate that it means that Denmark doesn't think vaccines were ever beneficial to people under…

> While I think it is certainly fair to talk about the policies of other countries, I don't think just because another country has a different policy necessarily dictates that policy is better or worse.

Other countries compared to who? Not everyone here is from the same country as you :)

I don't think anyone is making a value judgment based on where the policy is from.

Re: Autopsy-based characterization of myocarditis after anti-SARS-CoV-2-vaccination

#590

Post by pas »

merpnderp wrote: post #348
nulld3v wrote: post #67

I am vaccinated but I am upvoting this post because I believe that it is important to investigate these cases to determine how to improve future vaccines. I really don't like how this topic seems to be treated like some fringe conspiracy theory. Maybe it is just a conspiracy, but we won't ever know until sufficient research has been done. Currently, I still believe that people should vaccinate, even if vaccines cause…

I keep hearing vaccination being promoted, but the last major study I saw showed no statistically significant difference in natural immunity + vaccination versus simple natural immunity. This also seems to be a topic treated as a fringe conspiracy theory instead of an extremely serious health issue worthy of a large amount of resources dedicated to giving us an answer. One certainly could be forgiven for thinking the…

that's certainly an age dependent thing, right?
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